HCB Appreciation

[Alan Edward Klein]

You were complaining about how the image being upside-down on the ground glass confuses you, and then you literally asked “How do you know when the best time to shoot (sic)?”

The point is that, at the time of exposure, you can’t see the image on the ground glass anyway. This applies in portraiture, landscapes, or whatever else you are pointing your view camera at. Turn the question around on yourself: How do you know “the best time to shoot” anything with a view camera? Now do you understand?

Ok now I understand your point. It would have been clearer if I said. "How do you know when you have the best composition looking upside down?"

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

You are one of the few people here who tend to speak in universal declaratives, as if your subjective feelings and confusion apply to everyone. The statement “right-side up is best” is a perfect example of that. Progress is when one moves from assigning one’s own opinions to everyone to instead owning them as their own.

You're splitting hairs. When I make a declarative statement, of course, it's my opinion. Who else is it? Some people add IMO when they make a statement. That's redundant. It also shows they're not sure of their own beliefs or nervous they may offend others. If I say Italian food is the best, of course you can think German food is best. To you German food is the best. I don;t have to agree.

 

[Alex Benjamin]

When I make a declarative statement, of course, it's my opinion.

Only if you believe all declarative statements to be opinions, which is not the case.

"The Earth is round."
"The Earth is flat."

One is an opinion, the other one isn't.

Some people add IMO when they make a statement. That's redundant.

One shouldn't confuse redundancy with clarity.

 

[nikos79]

I am diving again in my book to provide an excerpt from HCB interviews (and not it is not about how he likes his fries )


When you bought your first Leica, then, was it because it

combined taking snapshots with being able to compose in a

similar manner to a plate camera?


Yes, that’s exactly what it was for me. Also, it was a very discreet

camera. I always keep the Vidom viewfinder on it. Otherwise, I

couldn’t see anything. My eyes are so accustomed to it, I would never

be able to take pictures any other way. Or in any other proportions

than the Leica’s [24-by-36-mm format].


But there are some square paintings, and the Rolleiflex

makes a square picture.


Yes, there are some square paintings . . . but squares present a

definite problem in composition. And I don’t believe in cropping. With

the Leica, there is a play between horizontal and vertical.

 

[Alex Benjamin]

Henry Cartier-Bresson in Mississippi (early 60s) / Walker Evans in Mississippi (early 30s)

 

[nikos79]

Henry Cartier-Bresson in Mississippi (early 60s) / Walker Evans in Mississippi (early 30s)

Who would guess they would be so similar!
If I am not mistaken they did a common exhibition together too.

I also think they are some very early photos of HCB where he was very much influenced by Atget but cannot recall how they looked like

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Only if you believe all declarative statements to be opinions, which is not the case.

"The Earth is round."
"The Earth is flat."

One is an opinion, the other one isn't.



One shouldn't confuse redundancy with clarity.

Alex, we're not talking about the roundness or flatness of the Earth. I was giving my viewpoint on whether it's easier to compose looking right side up or upside down. There are no certain or universal facts about that. It's my opinion and others as well. You're attacking me personally as others have for my viewpoints is inappropriate to this forum.

 

[Alex Benjamin]

You're attacking me personally

No. I was objecting to an idea you posted. You are taking my objection personally, which isn't the same.

This is what I was objecting to:

Some people add IMO when they make a statement. That's redundant.

I happen to disagree with the idea that a declarative statement is de facto an opinion.

 

[snusmumriken]

In The Europeans a few of HCB’s photos on this theme are captioned ‘First paid holidays’. I’m away from home so I can’t check whether this one is so captioned. But it’s hard for us today to comprehend what a big step in social history that provision was, and how recent.

P.S. I just checked my HCB book "The Europeans" it is indeed been titled "The first paid holidays"

Just to set the record straight, I am back home now, and the caption (in the edition I have) reads “On the banks of the Marne, 1938”.

But opposite is a photo captioned “The first paid holidays, France, 1936”, so my comment about the photo’s social significance stands.

 

[Don_ih]

comment about the photo’s social significance stands.

There's no reason to dispute the social significance or historic relevance but, on the face of it, the photo can be appreciated without knowing any of that. Added information doesn't make a naive interpretation inappropriate, even if it contradicts it.

 

[cliveh]

Henry Cartier-Bresson in Mississippi (early 60s) / Walker Evans in Mississippi (early 30s)

Out of these two, I would say the one by Walker Evans is a better composition, assuming the second on is by Evans.

 

[Don_ih]

Out of these two, I would say the one by Walker Evans is a better composition, assuming the second on is by Evans.

It's by Evans. And it's large format, so everyone involved knew the photo was being taken - watched him set up - and took part in the process, probably. He took a lot of similarly set-up photos.

I'd say Cartier-Bresson's is more spontaneous and looks more natural.

 

[snusmumriken]

There's no reason to dispute the social significance or historic relevance but, on the face of it, the photo can be appreciated without knowing any of that. Added information doesn't make a naive interpretation inappropriate, even if it contradicts it.

While that’s true, my point arose because someone suggested that the photo would have been better with four-fifths of the people removed. One person drinking alone produces a completely different audience response.

 

[Don_ih]

someone suggested

Yes, that was actually my daughter and she was joking.

 

[koraks]

I would say the one by Walker Evans is a better composition

Wholeheartedly disagree.

 

[nikos79]

The Walker Evans image in some better quality in order to be a "fair" comparison

 

[Don_ih]

The Walker Evans image in some better quality

 

[snusmumriken]

Isn’t the HCB image saying something about race? The Walker Evans one is just a photo of some quarter of town.

 

[nikos79]

View attachment 414555

 

[Don_ih]

Isn’t the HCB image saying something about race?

Maybe. But why doesn't the Walker Evans photo, if the Cartier-Bresson one does? Looks like that guy in the car is white - looks like the guy with his back to the camera might be white.

In the Cartier-Bresson photo, the white guy is sprawled out across the whole bench, but he looks like he's local. He sure looks comfortable.

 

[nikos79]

I can’t quite decide which image I prefer, though I tend to agree with Clive. The composition in the Walker Evans photograph feels almost cubist, or grid like, with the car somehow organically embedded within the frame. Look how decisively the car divides the image, without it the photograph would be very different. The whole composition feels very tight and resolved.

On the other hand, the HCB image contains what is so characteristic of his work: a dialogue, or tension between the two figures on the left and the man on the right. Their placement creates a strong sense of balance, almost symmetrical and all the other things in the image have a definite role, they tend to create the space "in-between" and they are also very well placed. Also as so often with HCB there is a sense of time being "frozen" at a precise moment.

If I had to choose, I’d say Evans has a slightly stronger composition, while the HCB image feels more documental and tense.

That said, please take this as nothing more than an attempt to read these photographs, and most likely falling short in the process.

 

[koraks]

Whether one prefers roses or peonies, it's insensible to argue that either is a better flower.

 

[Arthurwg]

Much prefer the HCB to the WE. Indeed, the WE may be one of his poorest pictures. I find it incoherent.

 

[Don_ih]

the WE may be one of his poorest pictures

It's a bit of a dud compared to others. It's a negative, not a print, in the Met collection - which, if you look though it, appears to be stuff they found in a dumpster behind MOMA.

 

[cliveh]

Look how in the Walker Evans image the shadow line from the top is the same angle of the cut or folded poster on the wall together with the graphic above the barber shop window. The way the wheel shapes are reflected in the hats. the board slats reflected in the engine cover and how the centre of the image is disected with the post leading the eye down to the front of the car. The white rags above the man in the white shirt. And I'm not even a Walker Evans fan.