Have I been shilled/scammed: Jobo CPE 2 on ebay

[Dinesh]

He had low sales (2).

I have filled it with water,...

I hope you didn't totally fill the drum as that may be why there is a screeching noise.

 

[wotalegend]

I can't comment on the value of a CPE 2 because I have not researched it sufficiently.

However I do feel qualified to comment on auction tactics, having worked in the old-fashioned face-to-face auction industry for sixteen years. Many times we used to be amused at the prices some people would pay - more than new price. So the first rule of bidding at any auction is to know the true market value of the item, set your maximum price, and do not exceed it under any circumstances. The second rule is to not bid early because there will always be someone in the crowd who is prepared to outbid you. Live auctions are somewhat more difficult than eBay from the buyer's point of view because all the other bidders and the auctioneer can see you and in the auctioneer's case at least, read your body language. It is also unpredictable as to exactly what moment the auctioneer will terminate the auction.

I have bought over two hundred photographic items on eBay (damn GAS) using the above two rules and I have never had regrets about paying too much or being the victim of a "shill" bid. I use Auction Sentry Deluxe to do my bidding in the last few seconds, and I probably lose twice as many auctions as I win because of earlier high bids or other bidders using similar software. That's life. It is not illegal and I don't believe that it is immoral, although some do. At least I don't have to get up at 3 AM to put in a bid for something on the other side of the world.

Cheers, Peter.

 

[whojammyflip]

The unit looks new though, as if its never been used. I am just going to try and get a full refund and find another one/buy one from the place Keith listed previously. Just in case, do Jobo still provide replacement parts from their German office? I looked at their website and it appears they might.

 

[whojammyflip]

As discussed above, 180 was deemed ok for a new unit. This unit appeared to be in new condition. I always use a sniping tool, and never bid over my initial fair valuation.

 

[bdial]

Jobo does still exist, and they do have parts for some units, though they haven't made the CPE for some time. However, as a guess, a motor for your unit, if they have one, might cost as much as you've paid. If you can't settle with the seller, your best bet is likely to see if the motor can be lubricated, or serviced.
If it works well when the unit isn't heated, then using it at room temperature might be an option, unless you are planning to use it for color.
If the seller won't settle, see if he can give you information as to the unit's history. That might help in diagnosing, or figuring out a plan of action.

 

[paul_c5x4]

Popped the cover off my CPE2 Plus to see what is inside. The motor looks like a fairly typical low voltage DC affair with an integrated worm gearbox - I would imagine it wouldn't be too difficult to dismantle and lube.
The thermostat appears to be a simple bimetalic breaker - If this is making a noise, the contacts are likely to be pitted/corroded.

If you are unsure of tackling repairs, it is simple enough that any competent engineer can service it.

 

[Mahler_one]

Well, I have collected the CPE 2, and it doesn't work! Unfortunately, because the guy had a low rating, I paid cash, as I did not like the idea of parting with 180 in advance only to see a deleted account and disappearing seller.

I saw the motor working at his house and thought all was fine. I got it home, put some water in it, and at the lowest temperature setting on the thermostat, the water is maintained at 47 degrees C, (as measured using the two thermometers it came with ). Even worse is the motor is now screeching slowly and is clearly missing some lube and about to seize.

It does look absolutely new, the reel inside the 1520 drum is brand new, as if its never been used. I can only assume the motor has gone bad in the guy's attic. I don't think the guy came across as being dodgy when I met him.

I've contacted the guy on the phone to say its not working, but I think he is taking the stance that it was "sold as seen", particularly given I signed his receipt which said as such (although it also says the thing is working which it clearly doesn't). Do I have any recourse against this?

Cheers.

I have been following the thread over the past few days. I had agreed with those that said the price was in line, and if the item worked-well, if you paid a few shillings more, so be it. Now it appears that you have been "had". I am not sure that there is any recourse...except you do know where the bloke lives I believe, unless you picked up the item in a pub or on the street. You will have to decide how "hard" and how upset you are. You can chalk the transaction up to experience and a hard earned lesson. You can try to contact Ebay, and go from there. Or, you know where the cheat lives and I imagine you have friends who might be able to help you make the case that you were cheated and he really should consider being a nice guy and returning your money. I would NEVER suggest violence associated with the later action of course, but perhaps you might make him an offer that he can't refuse? Let him keep half of the money you paid, and return the other half?

 

[pentaxuser]

I have difficulty reconciling its new almost unused look with the problems you have. It is difficult to fake a new look with heavily used equipment . I have a CPE2 which works fine but didn't look nearly new when I bought it. What I am driving at is that you may not have been deliberately scammed. The CPE2 is not a complicated piece of equipment in electrical terms. It may be that the problem is relatively easily fixed and results from it lying dormant. I'd get an electrician to look at it and give you an opinion. If it is "shot" then you have good grounds for opening a dispute. If it is repairable then you have the grounds for getting a contribution from the seller.

All is only lost from an e-bay leverage aspect if the seller doesn't mind being banned. You can make things really difficult if required. Alternatively if it is clear that the risk of being banned from e-bay does have any effect then I'd check out a Citizens Advice Bureau to see what may be possible at the Small Claims Court.

Giving up or having to resort to other "unconventional/ dubious tactics is a long way off. The seller just needs to realise that you want his recognition that you have a piece of equipment that doesn't meet requirements and some contribution on his part towards a resolution is required.

pentaxuser

 

[johnnywalker]

If I sold you that equipment thinking it was in good shape (or even not knowing what kind of shape it was in) I would not give you your money back or any part of it. You did buy it "as is", and knew you were taking a chance.

 

[mwdake]

The sellers description includes....

variable water bath heat control, with thermostat provides accurate temperature control.

If that is not the case surely that is reason for a refund or something.

 

[johnnywalker]

I'm sure the seller is repeating the Jobo literature to describe the machine - not guaranteeing the performance of this particular machine.

 

[largeformat pat]

I have brought gear from the states and had it shipped all the way here to OZ. I reread the description and If I had any questions I would ask before bidding I check were it was or if broken and how much I'm willing to pay. I have had a few items I've received that were broken. I have communicated with the seller. HOWEVER I CHECK THE DESCRIPTION AGAIN, SOLD AS Most sellers try to help. However I have taken a punt on a piece of equipment sight unseen and have to live with the outcome. I sorry to say you have never been to happy with this deal and seem to want to find fault. Emotions run high in auctions and even EBAY runs this to their advantage by simple comments, also more money for them. Just bight the bullet and try and fix the things. Chalk it up to knowledge and remember how you fixed it. I have sold one piece of equipment that was damaged, this was after a full check by the buyer, I did offer a small amount of compensation, However I buy by the same rules as you and he, I even stated sold as no warranty offered, implied results or expectation from this product are beyond my control.

 

[canuhead]

I think the problem you're going to have getting a refund is that you saw the motor running when you went to pick it up and accepted the unit. It'd bite to be in this situation but I'd probably grit my teeth and move on and get it fixed.

Take the top off and look around, could be something obvious if you're lucky.

 

[Greg Campbell]

From the outset of this thread you've been 110% negative since winning the item ...

There needs to be some realism.

Ian

Indeed.
I honestly don't understand your attitude. You bought a used piece of equipment. You tested it, you paid for it. Now you're acting as if you have the god given 'right' to perfection?

It seems likely that the processor has spend years sitting in the guy's attic; I'll bet it's been years since the thing was last plugged in! There is no evidence of malign intent on the part of the seller. Dry motor bearings are 'one of those things' that life is about. I suggest you concentrate on repairing the motor, rather than whining about 'getting ripped off' buy the big bad world.

<End Sermon>

 

[whojammyflip]

I hope you didn't totally fill the drum as that may be why there is a screeching noise.

No, I just filled the water bath, to cover the heating element and rollers.

 

[whojammyflip]

Popped the cover off my CPE2 Plus to see what is inside. The motor looks like a fairly typical low voltage DC affair with an integrated worm gearbox - I would imagine it wouldn't be too difficult to dismantle and lube.
The thermostat appears to be a simple bimetalic breaker - If this is making a noise, the contacts are likely to be pitted/corroded.

If you are unsure of tackling repairs, it is simple enough that any competent engineer can service it.

Many thanks for investigating. I guess a major advantage with the unit I have is that the sink is in perfect condition. If I cannot get the seller to sort out a refund, I guess these repairs are the way forwards.

Many thanks again for taking the trouble to investigate.

 

[whojammyflip]

I have been following the thread over the past few days. I had agreed with those that said the price was in line, and if the item worked-well, if you paid a few shillings more, so be it. Now it appears that you have been "had". I am not sure that there is any recourse...except you do know where the bloke lives I believe, unless you picked up the item in a pub or on the street. You will have to decide how "hard" and how upset you are. You can chalk the transaction up to experience and a hard earned lesson. You can try to contact Ebay, and go from there. Or, you know where the cheat lives and I imagine you have friends who might be able to help you make the case that you were cheated and he really should consider being a nice guy and returning your money. I would NEVER suggest violence associated with the later action of course, but perhaps you might make him an offer that he can't refuse? Let him keep half of the money you paid, and return the other half?

Yep, I collected it direct from his house, but would never resort to anything improper. It does mean I have his address and can write a letter. He is actually a nice guy, but I dont think he had tested the unit out. It had dust and cobwebs in the basin of the unit, which means he had not filled it. I think it was his Dad's.

 

[whojammyflip]

I have difficulty reconciling its new almost unused look with the problems you have. It is difficult to fake a new look with heavily used equipment . I have a CPE2 which works fine but didn't look nearly new when I bought it. What I am driving at is that you may not have been deliberately scammed. The CPE2 is not a complicated piece of equipment in electrical terms. It may be that the problem is relatively easily fixed and results from it lying dormant. I'd get an electrician to look at it and give you an opinion. If it is "shot" then you have good grounds for opening a dispute. If it is repairable then you have the grounds for getting a contribution from the seller.

All is only lost from an e-bay leverage aspect if the seller doesn't mind being banned. You can make things really difficult if required. Alternatively if it is clear that the risk of being banned from e-bay does have any effect then I'd check out a Citizens Advice Bureau to see what may be possible at the Small Claims Court.

Giving up or having to resort to other "unconventional/ dubious tactics is a long way off. The seller just needs to realise that you want his recognition that you have a piece of equipment that doesn't meet requirements and some contribution on his part towards a resolution is required.

pentaxuser

Thanks, I agree in that the seller is a totally genuine chap. I spoke to him on the phone last night and am hopeful he will sort the situation out. My wife has been calming me down about this as she came along too, and thought the guy was sound. I trust women's intuition over mine when a situation gets heated.

The drums look absolutely new, and the reel in the 1520 is completely white, as if is never seen chemicals. Not sure about the actual sink, because it has got slight marks around the top as if it was used in the past, and the screws on the top plate look like they have been attacked, but it could also be corrosion. I think he thought he was selling a perfect unit but by his own admission, he had not filled it with water to test the thermostat. However, its pretty much useless when its minimum temperature is 47 C, without being fixed, given I got this in order to do C41 and colour printing.

I checked the CAB webpage per your suggestion and I have protection from the small claims courts on the grounds I was missold (described as having a working accurate thermostat). Plus, apparently, price paid for second hand goods determines reasonable expectation of performance. I think at GBP 180, its reasonable for me to expect the thing to function as its meant to, and as was described.

Fingers crossed, it will be resolved. I have 6 rolls waiting to be developed (alone this costs GBP 48 quid locally with 6x4 prints) and a PCS 2000 and Nikon lens sitting under the stairs waiting to be deployed. The PCS cost me a fiver and the 50mm f4 lens a tenner!

I have just run a quick scan of yell.com for an electrician and there is one around the corner who does repairs...I will give him a buzz on Monday. This fills me with a lot of hope. I was getting very excited about the processor and my heart seriously sank when it didn't work.

 

[AgX]

It cost way more when it was new, however, since its out of production and used, its whatever someone is willing to pay in a given place at a given time.

The CPE-2 is out of production, but still offered out of stock by Jobo.

 

[paul_c5x4]

he had not filled it with water to test the thermostat..

One thing to note from the user manual - It says never to run the unit without some water in the bath. You only need a couple of litres to cover the heating element.

 

[perkeleellinen]

Just a suggestion, but if you find the unit needs a replacement part, a quick drive over to Nova in Warwick may be worthwhile. They've got quite a bit of 2nd hand stuff and various spare parts.

And also a quick welcome to hoojammyflip from a former Leamingtonian!

 

[whojammyflip]

Just a suggestion, but if you find the unit needs a replacement part, a quick drive over to Nova in Warwick may be worthwhile. They've got quite a bit of 2nd hand stuff and various spare parts.

And also a quick welcome to hoojammyflip from a former Leamingtonian!

Thanks, its photogenic round here, but a trip to Skye really got me into the film side of things. Only 35mm at the moment, though. Still, depth of field and lenses etc are all better than my "old" stuff.

I will pop down to Nova, as I am going to need chemicals and I guess that their webpage is not updated as fast as their second hand gear.

 

[whojammyflip]

One thing to note from the user manual - It says never to run the unit without some water in the bath. You only need a couple of litres to cover the heating element.

Yes, I thought about his comment "it makes a bit of a smell" some more. He had been running it without water for his testing. Still, I dont think that this would have damaged the thermocouple, as its just a piece of wire wrapped in rubber, by the looks of it. Air around the element might cause more trouble as it does not conduct heat as well as water.

 

[whojammyflip]

To end this saga, the seller just came and picked it up and gave me my cash back, and said he was going to dump the lot at the tip on the way home. I tried explaining that his new drums are worth a fair bit, but he seemed pretty intent. I thought it would be too cheeky to negotiate a price on the lot, so I didn't bother. Back to ebay for a CPE2, or maybe to SDS who Keith suggested.

Normally, I adhere to a rule of thumb on eBay, limit bidding to 10x the rating of the seller. In this case, I should not have bid, as the guy had only sold 2 items previously, and that was in the previous week. He was asking me about listing musical instruments and I suggested he would be better off selling them to a dealer or enlisting the help of a trading assistant on eBay.

 

[werra]

Still, I dont think that this would have damaged the thermocouple, as its just a piece of wire wrapped in rubber, by the looks of it.

'Thermocouple' as temperature sensor? Running the CPE wihout water will kill heating element. Just like switching water kettle on with no water in.