Hassy vs. RZ: Another one of THOSE threads....

Photo Engineer · Sep 30, 2014

Well, there you are Roger. I have a nice RZ with several lenses and an ETRSi with several lenses and no Hassy! And using what I have is a lot of fun and gives me quite a few very nice pictures. My screen wallpaper is an ETRSi that is also in my gallery and it enlarges to give a razor sharp grainless image which with my screen here is over 11x14.

PE

wiltw · Sep 30, 2014

Sirius Glass said:
Buying a Hasselblad would not prevent you from eating, just waiting longer between buying lenses.

2005 B&H prices from Shutterbug for two TTL flash compatible kits:

Hasselblad (503CW) vs. Bronica (SQ-Ai)
Kit (body, normal lens, film magazine): $4790 vs. $2499
Metered Prism Finder: $1632 vs. $969
E-12 film back: $1054 vs $611
50mm lens: $2946 vs. $1779
150mm: $3100 vs. $1779

That is a very basic kit for coverage of weddings. $13521 vs. $7637.

You cannot WAIT to procure a suitable kit, if you are hiring out to shoot weddings!

Roger Cole · Sep 30, 2014

Photo Engineer said:
Well, there you are Roger. I have a nice RZ with several lenses and an ETRSi with several lenses and no Hassy! And using what I have is a lot of fun and gives me quite a few very nice pictures. My screen wallpaper is an ETRSi that is also in my gallery and it enlarges to give a razor sharp grainless image which with my screen here is over 11x14.

PE

It's kind of what I do - though I don't have an RB or RZ I do have a 4x5 Tech III and want to replace it with another 4x5. I often do remark that the hassles of sheet film are such I wonder why I don't just get an RB or RZ kit and be done with it - but then it would weigh more than my 4x5 kit! (I also love using the view camera.) So or me it's 645, in the form of a 645 Pro system, and a 4x5, also with a 6x7 rollfilm back. Soon as I get the lights I've bought set up in my basement I'll experiment some with studio style portraiture and maybe still lifes, and I expect I'll do that mainly on 6x7 via the Tech III and RF back, though certainly with some sheet film too.

The Hasselblad bodies aren't too bad now but given the price of lenses it's just really hard for someone who hasn't drank the Koolaide, or at least for me, to see why I'd invest in that system. (I've also noticed the same thing you mention, that precisely made or not, and perhaps in part because it is precisely made, the Hasselblad stuff sure seems to need a lot of repair.)

ChristopherCoy · Oct 1, 2014

wiltw said:
2005 B&H prices from Shutterbug for two TTL flash compatible kits:

Hasselblad (503CW) vs. Bronica (SQ-Ai)
Kit (body, normal lens, film magazine): $4790 vs. $2499
Metered Prism Finder: $1632 vs. $969
E-12 film back: $1054 vs $611
50mm lens: $2946 vs. $1779
150mm: $3100 vs. $1779

That is a very basic kit for coverage of weddings. $13521 vs. $7637.

You cannot WAIT to procure a suitable kit, if you are hiring out to shoot weddings!

Point well made.

Dr Croubie · Oct 1, 2014

wiltw said:
2005 B&H prices from Shutterbug for two TTL flash compatible kits:

Hasselblad (503CW) vs. Bronica (SQ-Ai)
Kit (body, normal lens, film magazine): $4790 vs. $2499
Metered Prism Finder: $1632 vs. $969
E-12 film back: $1054 vs $611
50mm lens: $2946 vs. $1779
150mm: $3100 vs. $1779

That is a very basic kit for coverage of weddings. $13521 vs. $7637.

Kiev 88CM body, 80mm MC Biometar: $200
45-degree TTL/Spot Kiev Prism Finder: $50
Spare backs: $20 each
50mm MC Flektogon: $200
180mm f/2.8 MC Sonnar: $200.
Five spare bodies and 10 spare backs for when anything breaks: $600
Total kit: $1400.

David R Munson · Oct 1, 2014

And for that you could also buy 47 Holgas. At some point, the pissing contest of supposed economy becomes moot.

wiltw · Oct 1, 2014

wiltw said:
2005 B&H prices from Shutterbug for two TTL flash compatible kits:

Hasselblad (503CW) vs. Bronica (SQ-Ai)
Kit (body, normal lens, film magazine): $4790 vs. $2499
Metered Prism Finder: $1632 vs. $969
E-12 film back: $1054 vs $611
50mm lens: $2946 vs. $1779
150mm: $3100 vs. $1779

That is a very basic kit for coverage of weddings. $13521 vs. $7637.

You cannot WAIT to procure a suitable kit, if you are hiring out to shoot weddings!

And if I take the $5884 difference in price between the two kits, and amortize that over $5 per day in food, it is 1177 days of living frugally to cover the cost difference. Even worse, it is 452 days without a new 12-pack of beer (on special at $13) each day!

ChristopherCoy · Oct 1, 2014

Dr Croubie said:
Kiev 88CM body, 80mm MC Biometar: $200
45-degree TTL/Spot Kiev Prism Finder: $50
Spare backs: $20 each
50mm MC Flektogon: $200
180mm f/2.8 MC Sonnar: $200.
Five spare bodies and 10 spare backs for when anything breaks: $600
Total kit: $1400.

trade ya a hassy? LOL

TheFlyingCamera · Oct 1, 2014

Roger Cole said:
The Hasselblad bodies aren't too bad now but given the price of lenses it's just really hard for someone who hasn't drank the Koolaide, or at least for me, to see why I'd invest in that system. (I've also noticed the same thing you mention, that precisely made or not, and perhaps in part because it is precisely made, the Hasselblad stuff sure seems to need a lot of repair.)

It may also in part be due to the fact that A: there were so many of them made, that you see and hear more about them, B: a LOT of them were used by working professionals who used them to the point of wearing them out, so now those ragged cameras are showing up on the second-hand market, and C: the ones that show up in pristine cosmetic condition were doctor/lawyer shelf queens that sat unused, dry-rotted and congealed from inside.

johnha · Oct 1, 2014

Dr Croubie said:
Kiev 88CM body, 80mm MC Biometar: $200
45-degree TTL/Spot Kiev Prism Finder: $50
Spare backs: $20 each
50mm MC Flektogon: $200
180mm f/2.8 MC Sonnar: $200.
Five spare bodies and 10 spare backs for when anything breaks: $600
Total kit: $1400.

Back in the '90s the Kiev's were good value, but manufacture was variable (IIRC light leaks were common on UK imported cameras). I went for a Bronica SQ-B instead of a more expansive Kiev 88 system. Any 'reputable' medium format system is capable of 'professional' results, but consistency & reliability is more important than specific features.

I chose Bronica SQ-B (couldn't justify the expense of an SQ-Ai) because the alternative was a used Hassy (high prices with unknown provenience & expensive lenses) and I'd done a lot of 'early internet' research which suggested that Hassy's were prone to jam if operated incorrectly (possibly a case of a superiority complex from the few Hassy users on the web at the time 'If you don't know how to use one, don't bother buying one'). This was before d*****l arrived (OK, you could probably buy a phase one 6MP back for $50k), before ebay and before medium format prices dropped significantly.

Sirius Glass · Oct 1, 2014

wiltw said:
2005 B&H prices from Shutterbug for two TTL flash compatible kits:

Hasselblad (503CW) vs. Bronica (SQ-Ai)
Kit (body, normal lens, film magazine): $4790 vs. $2499
Metered Prism Finder: $1632 vs. $969
E-12 film back: $1054 vs $611
50mm lens: $2946 vs. $1779
150mm: $3100 vs. $1779

That is a very basic kit for coverage of weddings. $13521 vs. $7637.

You cannot WAIT to procure a suitable kit, if you are hiring out to shoot weddings!

KEH and Samys sell the 59mm, 150mm, 250mm Hasselblad CF lenses for around $800 and the 80mm CF lens for $500.

Sirius Glass · Oct 1, 2014

Roger Cole said:
Well you called the RZ a beast (I don't disagree in terms of size and weight) and the Hassy "well designed" which to me indicated the RZ was a beast because it wasn't well designed. Otherwise the comparison would be a beast versus a smaller lighter camera because both are well designed.

I'd rather have the Hassy for hand held use and the RZ on a tripod but for the price of the Hasselblad and a few lenses you could have a really nice RZ system AND a nice 645 or other-than-Hasselblad 6x6 system and for someone who shoots both styles that might be a better choice.

Sent from my iPhone via Tapatalk using 100% recycled electrons. Because I care.

We violently agree!

Alan Gales · Oct 1, 2014

Sirius Glass said:
We violently agree!

Sirius, I know that you secretly want to fondle a hot, sexy, voluptuous RZ. You just won't admit it!

zeta3 · Oct 2, 2014

After I got the Hassy, I realized that I actually liked my Bronica SQ-Ai. The even funnier thing is that when I use the Bronica lots of people ask "is that a Hasselblad" but nobody says anything when I have the Hassy.

Focusing, handling and general usage is so much easier with the Bronica. I will take it with me on vacation next week, while the Hassy and Mamiya RB stay home.

mweintraub · Oct 2, 2014

zeta3 said:
After I got the Hassy, I realized that I actually liked my Bronica SQ-Ai. The even funnier thing is that when I use the Bronica lots of people ask "is that a Hasselblad" but nobody says anything when I have the Hassy.

Focusing, handling and general usage is so much easier with the Bronica. I will take it with me on vacation next week, while the Hassy and Mamiya RB stay home.

I have a pretty nice SQ-A (and SQ-Am) kit and had a chance to pick up a 500/501 C/CM(?) kit with a 50mm and 80mm (older style) for $600. I was very tempted and almost did it. if I did and kept it, it would mean the Bronica kit would go bye bye. A couple things that kept em from buying it was that one of the lenses had slow shutters at slow settings, unknown history of maintinance and how long it's sat around, and lastly I'd have to sell the Bronica. I think having to part the Bronica kit was the true tipping point to keeping it.

Mainecoonmaniac · Oct 2, 2014

Will this convince you?

I've owned an a RZ kit for years, now I want a Hassy.

http://petapixel.com/2014/10/02/mes...treet-photography-through-a-hasselblad-500cm/

ChristopherCoy · Oct 2, 2014

Mainecoonmaniac said:
I've owned an a RZ kit for years, now I want a Hassy.

http://petapixel.com/2014/10/02/mes...treet-photography-through-a-hasselblad-500cm/

Dont let it fool you. Those screens aren't THAT bright.

Photo Engineer · Oct 2, 2014

I notice that the settings are the same for all of the shots. That is just great. I'm generally more accurate than that.

PE

snay1345 · Oct 2, 2014

Buying an RZ is what cured my GAS finally after years of searching for that one camera that I needed. Well I guess it cured my GAS for camera bodies as I am still collecting lenses for it.

wiltw · Oct 3, 2014

Sirius Glass said:
KEH and Samys sell the 59mm, 150mm, 250mm Hasselblad CF lenses for around $800 and the 80mm CF lens for $500.

Assuming those are 2014 prices, they are after the bottom fell out from medium format film cameras!

In 2003, B&H used prices for 50mm, 80mm, 150mm, 250mm

Hassy: $1950, $699, $1699, $1699
Bronica: $995, $399, $899, $1399

Total (4 lenses): $6047 vs. $3692

At $5 per day, it is still 471 days without a $5 lunch to cover the difference!

bdial · Oct 3, 2014

Photo Engineer said:
I notice that the settings are the same for all of the shots. That is just great. I'm generally more accurate than that.

PE

Only perfect exposures are possible using a Hasselblad.
You didn't get that memo?

ChristopherCoy · Oct 3, 2014

snay1345 said:
Buying an RZ is what cured my GAS finally after years of searching for that one camera that I needed.

What is the reason? What do you like about it?

Old-N-Feeble · Oct 3, 2014

Anyone wnt to repeat the differences between tha RB/RZ and Hassy?

frank · Oct 3, 2014

Old-N-Feeble said:
Anyone wnt to repeat the differences between tha RB/RZ and Hassy?

RB/RZ is bigger, Hassy is more expensive

bdial · Oct 3, 2014

And no used RB/RZ's are available on the moon.

Hassy vs. RZ: Another one of THOSE threads....

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