One of my friends who has an RZ67 tells me every time he gets it out in public he has a crowd around him. I have used both RB and RZ cameras in the studio and they are wonderful portrait cameras on a tripod, but I would hate to lug one about for any length of time without a truss for my herniaI had the RZ67 for a while. I sold it because...is large. I mostly shoot street photography. When you pull the RZ67 out of your bag, you become the center of the attention. At least, I felt that way. The camera is smaller if you are shooting with the 110 f2.8 lens. Any other lenses like the 180 or 65mm, the kit will get even larger. Is heavy too and you need a grip to shoot comfortably. Again, adding a grip would make the kit even more larger. Focusing isn't the quickest. You still need to use the magnifying glass to nail the focus unless you are stopping down to F8 to F16. Now, you have to lift a 7lb camera close to your face in order to focus through the magnifying glass. I tried to use a microprism screen, the Mamiya brand. The "spot" was too small. The vewfinder is big and bright. The size, the ergonomic, and the need to nail the focus through magnifying glass forced me to sell the kit. I wasn't shooting it enough. The image quality is really, really nice though. I ended up getting a Yashica Mat now.
One of my friends who has an RZ67 tells me every time he gets it out in public he has a crowd around him.
His camera I meanThen he should stop doing that and concentrate on his photography.
btw, also check Polaroid backs out - if you like them, you might prefer one camera system's representation over the other.
(Btw - am I correct in understanding that the 500cm is all manual? )
I own a Hasselblad system and a Mamiya RB67SD (effectively like a RZ but no batteries). I'll start with the Hasselblad.
Hassy----
I have a Hasselblad 501CM. I have owned a Hasselblad system for 5 years now. Started with a 501CM, then replaced it with a 500ELX, then went back to a 501CM after having to repair the ELX 3 times for the same fault. Since we're talking repairs I also had to fix one A12 back for a broken frame counter (bought it like that so fair enough) and my current one probably needs to go sometime for service as I get the odd spacing issue. I have also owned at one time or another the 50CT, 50CF, 60CB, 80CB, 150CT, 150CF, 160CB and 250CT. I have the 80 now only and the 160 is on sale. Anyway...wonderful system. I use it exclusively with a PM90 prism. The tactile feeling is superb. The scans and prints I get back are just amazing. That Zeiss glass is really amazing.
HOwever...things I had to look for. For starters, unless you get a body with a Acute Matte D screen (latest type) you can't focus sh!t (well, I at least). Unless you want a split screen but I don't like these, I prefer a plain screen so I can see all around. So that's expensive if you can find one and is not included with your camera. But it is the brightest screen I've ever seen (and I have a Maxwell one so I'll come to that later). Also, servicing one of these is more expensive than most other systems.
So, overall, great system, great picture quality, the ergonomics are mostly ok though I hate that shutter button that gets tripped when it catches on my belt as I walk around (camera over shoulder) and I really find the 1/60 min shutter speed (handheld, no time for tripods) limiting. And it is expensive.
Mamiya RB----
I bought a like new (I actually think it was unboxed old stock, it was unmarked) RB67 SD last year. I now have a couple of backs, prism and have owned the following lenses, 65KL, 90KL (new), 127KL (also new!), 180KL and 250KL. These are all the latest optics and I believe are the same as the RZ optics. Ok, the camera is massive. I mean friggin huge. It makes the 501CM look like a toy, especially when I have the grip and prism on the Mamiya. However, a RB with WLF is not that much bigger in volume compared to a 500ELX.
Handling: it is heavy. I find it tricky to use without a grip. With the grip I can carry it around all day. The strap is crap though, it won't rotate and whichever of the four angles you set it to (once it is set that's it, you have to remove it to adjust it) it will be wrong, either for shooting or for carrying. So grip it is for me. Alternatively I will leave the grip home and put the camera in the bag, take it out, shoot, put it back in again. Also, without the grip focusing close makes it very front heavy and a bit unstable due to the bellows. The rotating back is just really cool. And I can shoot down to 1/15 and even 1/8. That's two stops over the Hasselblad.
Finder: When I first opened the finder I thought WOW! Hasselblad schmasselblad. That screen is like a TV. it is dark though so I eventually got myself a Bill Maxwell. Now Bill is a nice guy and that screen for the RB is very good but it is not $400 good. He tried to sell me a screen for my Hasselblad. Claimed it would be 10x brighter than my Acute Matte D just like the RB is. Well...the RB screen is not brighter. Period. It is almost as bright but not brighter. And reflects more light when looking down (probably because it is not brighter!). But the size of the screen makes it p1ss easy to focus. It is fantastic! I can reliably focus anywhere on the screen. So I would budget for a screen from Bill, I hear he makes a cheaper version (near half price) just as good nowadays...
Speed of operation: Probably as slow as the hassy. The focusing takes for ever as it is bellows. However I find the wind-on quicker (even the two step process the RB has, body+back, the RZ is single crank0. Push and done. The Hassy is twist twist twist done. I can even do the RB without taking my eye off the finder (when I have the grip of course).
Image quality: whoever says the RB/RZ optics (latest type, don't know about the older ones) are inferior to hasselblad they clearly haven't used one and are just brand snobs. The results are AMAZING. The clarity is there. The contrast. The bokeh at close-up is cream and butter. But it is a different look to the Hasselblad. The Mamiya has a more modern look, the Hasselblad is more traditional. One is not better than the other, they have a different look. Besides, one is square, the other is not!
Prices: the total cost for my **new** RB67SD, two backs, prism, 65KL, 90KL, 127KL, 180KL and 250KL is the price I paid for the 501CM+80+A12 kit. Enough said. I paid £80 for a like new 180KL. £60 for a mint back. In hasselblad-land £60 buys you a scratched lens filter. At least in the UK.
Which to have: I thought about selling the hasselblad. It collects mostly dust now that I have the RB67. I actually find the RB a nicer handling camera. It is heavy but it is actually smoother to focus (slower but lighter focusing) and the wind-on is simpler. The shutter release is soft and damped. The screen is massive. It costs nothing to buy more equipment. Servicing is cheaper. I can do close-ups without tubes or filters like you need in the hassy. I can shoot in lower light. I can shove it in a ThinkTank Retrospective and walk around for hours. My Hasselblad is a £1300-1400 (with all the accessories) collecting dust (haven't used it in 4 months). But after a lot of thought and as I was seriously tempted to sell the Hasselblad I decided to keep both, mainly on the advice of the missus (!). Different systems for different things!
It is like selling your children these things and while you know the Mamiya is the one that will do you proud every time the Hasselblad is the slightly spoilt, slightly annoying one you always forgive as it's so pretty...
But after a lot of thought and as I was seriously tempted to sell the Hasselblad I decided to keep both, mainly on the advice of the missus (!). Different systems for different things!
Do you want to (and can you afford to) keep the hassy on a shelf and let it appreciate in value (which it will), and shoot the RZ? Or would you have to sell one to fund the other?
If you keep the Hassy only, are you afraid to take it out of the house and shoot with it for fear it might get damaged and lose value, or are you happy to use it as intended?
If the hassy focusses slowly and dimly, have you tried an RZ enough to know that it will fix those problems? And can you live with what you've got without GASing the expensive accessories (or can you live with the cheap-but-good Soviet hassy-compatible accessories)?
My conundrum is whether I will really want to sell the Hasselblad or not. Its a classic and I may never find one in this condition again. I know that the equipment doesn't make the image, the photographer does, but will I regret it later on?
IF you are not going to use the Hasselblad regularly, then sell it. These cameras, like Leicas, Rolleis, and just about any other serious piece of photographic equipment, were made to be used regularly. The worst thing you can do to any of them is to let them sit unexercised. Their rubber and plastic bits will dry-rot, the lubricants will gum up, and you'll have a very pretty paperweight. Frankly I'd make an effort to use the Hassy more instead of shopping for more toys. I'll third/fourth/fifth the recommendation to just plunk down the money for the Acute-Matte. Back in the day, I got one for my 500C/M, and it was worth every penny. Have a little patience with looking for one and you'll find one at less-than-retail price.
The sad part is that if I could part with many of the cameras in my collection and only keep two or three of my absolute die hard favorites.... I could probably build a hell of a Hassy kit.
The sad part is that if I could part with many of the cameras in my collection and only keep two or three of my absolute die hard favorites.... I could probably build a hell of a Hassy kit.
We must suffer from the same disease.
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
the polaroid back on the RZ & stop whining; shoot those fricking camera's and show us some results
IT USES THE WHOLE FRAME????? oooh thats nice.....
No, it's 7cm by 7cm: like this:
I'm thinking of selling it in order to purchase a Mamiya RZ67 kit. I used to shoot with a Mamiya C33 so I know that I definitely like the bellows focusing, and I like the brightness of the Mamiya screens. I can still make square images with a 6x7, but it will also lend itself well to traditional sizes as well.
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