Hasselblad, streaks on photos - something is wrong

Auroraua · Jun 4, 2015

I have just bought a Hasselblad 501 CM that looks to be in a very good shape, the buyer has used it occasionally once per year, the last years. It was bought by the owner 2001.
There are some marks on a lot of the photos. The strange things it´s not on every roll.
I only have taken one color roll and it seems not to be there, but it could be.
It´s mainly on the b/w photos that I develop myself, but not on every single roll.
I have used both a newish Rodinal, oldish HC-110 and a just mixed D-76 as well as just mixed Foma Excel.
I have used three different stainless steel reels and different films, purchased at different places.
I also took some photos with a different camera, developed with two of the reels (took two rolls) and there are no streaks.
So, it seems to be the camera.
Do you know what it could possibly be?
Is it the back, the body, the lens?
Where is a good place to repair in Europe.
Is it repairable you think?

removedacct1 · Jun 4, 2015

I'm guessing these are neg scans you've done using an Epson scanner, yes? If so, it's not your camera, it's the scanner that is introducing the streaks. Epson doesn't want to talk about this problem, since it's a hardware issue and there is no fix for it.
If you are in fact using an Epson V series scanner, let me know and I'll tell you how to limit/avoid the problem as best you can.

Thomas Bertilsson · Jun 4, 2015

paulbarden is 100% correct. I use a V700 and I have had this issue since the first time I used the scanner. It's part of why I dislike Epson very much. It is my theory that what you see is a reflection that occurs between the glass surfaces and the negative holder inside the scanner.

You can use tape and tape your negatives to the glass platen, and use the bottom part of the scanner instead. You lose a little bit of resolution, because the top portion is better. But you get rid of the banding issue. Now pray you don't get Newton Rings instead (mainly Kodak TMax problem).

Auroraua · Jun 4, 2015

It´s an Epson v700, so yes.
A friend just came to take a digital shot of the neg and it is not on the negative.
So you need to tape it down and not use the Epson holder?
Annoying, it´s an expensive scanner and this is not really alright. It´s just recent I started having this issue.
Can you give me dumbo guidance how to mainly avoid this issue?
Also it seems to happen especially at frame 1, 3, 6 and 12 - but not always and it´s not on every roll.
I also scanned some neg twice.
And it seems to be mainly Hasselblad. Not my other medium format camera and it´s not on any 35mm.

Richard S. (rich815) · Jun 4, 2015

Try Vuescan

Auroraua · Jun 4, 2015

I already use vuescan.

removedacct1 · Jun 4, 2015

It appears more frequently on Hasselblad negs than any other, because the Hasselblad image area is smaller than most other 6X6 negs, and so more of the unexposed border area is "seen" by the scanner, and that makes the problem worse.

1) always position your negatives in the neg holder so that the neg is as far to the outer edge of the holder as you can position it.
2) whenever possible, position your negative so that areas of least density are the first thing the scanner encounters as it makes its pass. Areas of high density will make this problem far worse if those are the first areas the scanner "sees".
3) if you continue having a big problem with this effect, you can take a strip of unexposed* film (I use a 1/8" strip of 4x5 sheet film) and slip it into the neg carrier at the top (where the scanning bar starts) outer edge of your negative to block out the unexposed region of the film. The problem is caused when the first part of the scan happens where there is a region of high density visible adjacent to unexposed border region. Anything you can do to avoid the scan starting where zero density meets high density on the neg will limit (or completely prevent) this streaking from occurring.

Here is the sample image I showed to technician friends earlier this year when seeking a diagnosis for this exact problem. I too thought the issue was the Hasselblad itself, when in fact the problem was the Epson V750 introducing artifacts that were more frequent on Hasselblad shots because the Hasselblad negs are smaller and show a wider unexposed border.

If anyone else has found a better solution to this problem, I'd sure like to hear it. (Aside from buying a different scanner. FYI Epson tech support totally failed to address my problem, even though I know they know about it. They just told me to take it to the nearest service center "for repair". I won't buy another Epson scanner, thats for sure)

*or exposed and developed (IE: dark) film.

ic-racer · Jun 4, 2015

Personally, I'd not allow scans on this site for this reason. You need to take a picture of the negatives on a light table if you want help with your camera. I'm at the point where I'll ignore a thread asking for help if the original post has a scanned image.

Thomas Bertilsson · Jun 4, 2015

It would be nice to have a masking neg holder for the Epson.

paulbarden said:
It appears more frequently on Hasselblad negs than any other, because the Hasselblad image area is smaller than most other 6X6 negs, and so more of the unexposed border area is "seen" by the scanner, and that makes the problem worse.

1) always position your negatives in the neg holder so that the neg is as far to the outer edge of the holder as you can position it.
2) whenever possible, position your negative so that areas of least density are the first thing the scanner encounters as it makes its pass. Areas of high density will make this problem far worse if those are the first areas the scanner "sees".
3) if you continue having a big problem with this effect, you can take a strip of unexposed* film (I use a 1/8" strip of 4x5 sheet film) and slip it into the neg carrier at the top (where the scanning bar starts) outer edge of your negative to block out the unexposed region of the film. The problem is caused when the first part of the scan happens where there is a region of high density visible adjacent to unexposed border region. Anything you can do to avoid the scan starting where zero density meets high density on the neg will limit (or completely prevent) this streaking from occurring.

Here is the sample image I showed to technician friends earlier this year when seeking a diagnosis for this exact problem. I too thought the issue was the Hasselblad itself, when in fact the problem was the Epson V750 introducing artifacts that were more frequent on Hasselblad shots because the Hasselblad negs are smaller and show a wider unexposed border.

If anyone else has found a better solution to this problem, I'd sure like to hear it. (Aside from buying a different scanner. FYI Epson tech support totally failed to address my problem, even though I know they know about it. They just told me to take it to the nearest service center "for repair". I won't buy another Epson scanner, thats for sure)

*or exposed and developed (IE: dark) film.

removedacct1 · Jun 4, 2015

ic-racer said:
Personally, I'd not allow scans on this site for this reason. You need to take a picture of the negatives on a light table if you want help with your camera. I'm at the point where I'll ignore a thread asking for help if the original post has a scanned image.

Oh yes, this is very helpful.
You claim to ignore all posts that solicit help with non-analog equipment, and yet here you are.

Richard S. (rich815) · Jun 4, 2015

Auroraua said:
I already use vuescan.

Hmmm, might be scanner issue, try masking the neg better so no side light leaks....

Sirius Glass · Jun 4, 2015

paulbarden said:
It appears more frequently on Hasselblad negs than any other, because the Hasselblad image area is smaller than most other 6X6 negs, and so more of the unexposed border area is "seen" by the scanner, and that makes the problem worse.

What are you smoking? I would like some of that. Hasselblad 6x6 negatives are the same size as other 6x6, all of them are square and go to the edge of the rebate.

Xmas · Jun 4, 2015

HiPaul

It is quicker and simpler looking at the negatives on a light table for defects or bad exposure...

That was how it was done before scanners.

Noel

Sirius Glass · Jun 4, 2015

Xmas said:
HiPaul

It is quicker and simpler looking at the negatives on a light table for defects or bad exposure...

That was how it was done before scanners.

Noel

+1

Looking at the negative directly can answer questions and remove scanners and scanning software issues from the problem.

Auroraua · Jun 4, 2015

In this case, it has helped, as it is scanner related apparently and not analog. After posting a friend took a photo, of the negative and yes it is scanner related.

Auroraua · Jun 4, 2015

Thanks for this.
I wonder if betterscanning helps with this issue.
How do you place your strip of unexposed film. Do you just place the negative slightly on top of the strip?
In the shop where I bought the scanner, the guy was very helpful, saying it is scanner related, as it creates shadows. He lent me the new v800 holders that do have glass, but recommended betterscanning holders.
I will try your method, to see if it works. I want to be able to scan the negatives, as sometimes I need to.
However my intention is to start printing. At least it´s good to know its not to do with the camera.
Annoying that the v700 - Epson has this issue, as there are not that many MF scanners out there.

Thomas Bertilsson · Jun 4, 2015

Auroraua said:
Thanks for this.
I wonder if betterscanning helps with this issue.

They don't.

Sirius Glass · Jun 4, 2015

Thomas Bertilsson said:
They don't.

You got that right.

Xmas · Jun 5, 2015

Auroraua said:
In this case, it has helped, as it is scanner related apparently and not analog. After posting a friend took a photo, of the negative and yes it is scanner related.

On a light table (or holding the neg up to a bulb) you won't be able to judge artistic merit but you should with practice see defects like near under exposure, dust, light leak or damage.
Most people contact printed after light table and filed.
If you can tell you are not going to print there is no point in scanning.

shutterfinger · Jun 5, 2015

I recently purchased a Better Scanning film holder and a V700. The better scanning holder is a disappointment. It is a plastic frame that a piece of anti newton ring glass lays in whose height can be adjusted. The negative to be scanned has to be taped to the anti newton ring glass then a mat sheet cut to mask the negative and laid on top of the glass and taped in place to prevent it from slipping. I bought it so that I can do borderless scans of negatives that show the rebate and edges of 4x5 film. I haven't had time to test it beyond verifying the scanner works. I will most likely only use the better scanning holder for those special negatives, not the routine stuff. If you get a better scanning holder get the precut masks or a cutting mat and razor knife with plenty of spare blades and a good straight edge.

Oldwino · Jun 5, 2015

I have a V700 and use the Betterscanning holder for 120 and Vuescan. I don't have this issue, even with Hasselblad negs. Am I just lucky?

removedacct1 · Jun 5, 2015

Oldwino said:
I have a V700 and use the Betterscanning holder for 120 and Vuescan. I don't have this issue, even with Hasselblad negs. Am I just lucky?

Possibly. This problem only shows up with a fraction of my images, and it is most pronounced when the negs are quite dense in the region where the scanning bar first encounters the negative. Perhaps your negs rarely have areas of great density? Maybe the Betterscanning holder helps ameliorate the problem? Maybe you position your negs in the holder to avoid scanning the rebate area? These factors determine when, and how much you are likely to encounter this problem. It's something I see in only the occasional dense(ish) neg, and is most conspicuous when the dense areas are uniform monotones, such as clear skies/heavy overcast, or white backdrop in studio.

Thomas Bertilsson · Jun 5, 2015

The Epson scanners exhibit this problem mostly on negatives that are fairly dense.
So it depends on what subject matter you photograph, and subsequently how the negs are exposed and processed.

I like very rich negatives with quite a bit of contrast and density. They print nicer in my darkroom. But thinner negatives scan better.

Auroraua · Jun 5, 2015

I went to the shop where I purchased the scanner. The guy immediately said it´s due to the scanner. Thought it is a shadow that casts itself on the dense part of the negative.
He lent me some holders for v800 - which has a glass - but you can only scan one row.
And the same negatives now scan hassle free.
No streaks.
THink I am going to purchase a couple of v800 holders.
Not as flimsy as the v700 and cost about 10 euros each.

winger · Jun 5, 2015

Does the V800 do this, too? Is it only with Hasselblad negs or would anything with a dense area on the edge do it?

I'm still using a 4870, but I'll need info if it dies (it's only 10 years old).

Hasselblad, streaks on photos - something is wrong

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