Has anyone used Ultrafine ECO Black, White, and Green Film Developer

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Hubigpielover

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removed account4

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it looks like PhotoWarehouse / Ultrafine lists a bunch of developing times.
You might look up some of Pat Gainer's posts and Jay DeFehr's posts about PC-TEA , here and on PNet &c they might lend some insights
on best use and best practices for using the developer. Have fun !
John

added later: the flic website says : Use development times for Kodak D-76 1:2
hope that helps too. ..
 
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Nicholas Lindan

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Incidentally I found their description of their rapid fix funny: “It contains no Hypo so does not require a Hypo Clearing Agent prior to washing.

Ah, so it is a Potassium Cyanide fixer...

Or, maybe they mean it contains no Hyposulfate, only Thiosulfate.

But it is probably a very bad interpretation of an Ammonium Thiosulfate fixer, which under some circumstances doesn't benefit much from KHCA.
 

cmacd123

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But it is probably a very bad interpretation of an Ammonium Thiosulfate fixer, which under some circumstances doesn't benefit much from KHCA.
The MSDS - WHMIS sheet says that their fixer contains
Ammonium thiosulfate
(CAS-No.) 7783-187-8
86-95%
so I would guess that is the interpretation.
 

osella

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Based on the MSDS this developer appears to be a commercialized version of PC-TEA so people who have used that might be able to comment on working characteristics.

This is almost certainly what it is, the color is identical to my batch of PC-TEA.

Those developing times look a little long to me, at least for Delta 100. 13 minutes is going to give pretty contrasty negatives. The review listed says that it’s a low contrast developer so maybe there is some unlisted restrainer, you can get plenty of contrast from PC-TEA.
 

pentaxuser

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What does the following quote from its website mean:

"Have you ever used a film developer that suited all of your needs at once? Every black and white film developer out there has a trade-off.

Either it lasts forever, but makes film grainy like Rodinal. Or it creates beautiful, fine-grain negatives, but comes in a powder (D-76, Xtol, or Microphen). Or worse, it’s an incredibly versatile liquid developer, but it’s expensive and only lasts 6 months in a full, stoppered bottle like DD-X and HC-110. "

So is this claiming that HC110 and DDX only have 6 months shelf life even when unopened?

I presume that the "green" part refers to its "ecological" colour?

pentaxuser
 

pentaxuser

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Thanks michael_r. What I quoted seemed so astounding to me that I wanted to be sure I had interpreted correctly what the site had said. It looks as if I have. It indicates that the site has at best just plucked 2 developers out of thin air and attributed the claim to them arbitrarily and at worst has made such a claim to deliberately cast its own new developer in a shining light as a "breakthrough" developer by consciously attributing false claims on other makers' developers.

All this does is make me question the reliability of such a site, so the marketing "blurb" has had the opposite effect on me to that which was intended.

pentaxuser
 
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Hubigpielover

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Ha, it seems there is no one more skeptical than a film shooter. I think once I finish setting up my darkroom, I will do a side by side test on how it works against another developer. As always thanks for evreyones input. Missed cruising an interacting in the forums.
 

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I thought I would give it a try, but when going to the PW site not listed under black and white chemistry.
 

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What I quoted seemed so astounding to me that I wanted to be sure I had interpreted correctly what the site had said. It looks as if I have. It indicates that the site has at best just plucked 2 developers out of thin air and attributed the claim to them arbitrarily and at worst has made such a claim to deliberately cast its own new developer in a shining light as a "breakthrough" developer by consciously attributing false claims on other makers' developers.

To my mind, the "review" referred to is a good indication of the quality of much information available online today; mind you, books are not exempt from made-up technical details and / or errors.
 

removed account4

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Ha, it seems there is no one more skeptical than a film shooter. I think once I finish setting up my darkroom, I will do a side by side test on how it works against another developer. As always thanks for evreyones input. Missed cruising an interacting in the forums.
have fun with the developer! im excited to hear how it you like it.
I hope Flic does well with it! its great to hear of new products that are released or ones that have been around forever and people seem to just get discover/

John
 
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Hubigpielover

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have fun with the developer! im excited to hear how it you like it.
I hope Flic does well with it! its great to hear of new products that are released or ones that have been around forever and people seem to just get discover/

John
I will do a review once I get it. Also ordering Rodinal because I haven't developed anything in over thirty years.
 

Dusty Negative

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I will do a review once I get it. Also ordering Rodinal because I haven't developed anything in over thirty years.

I just ordered a bottle. Look forward to hearing your thoughts.
 
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Hubigpielover

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I just ordered a bottle. Look forward to hearing your thoughts.

Yeah, I will order some to try out also. I've still got twelve weeks before my enlarger arrives so I have time. Looking forward to see how it works out for you.
 

Dusty Negative

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OK, received the bottle of Black, White, and Green film developer and have developed a roll of Tri-X with it. Here are my thoughts;

1. THIS STUFF IS VISCOUS. When it arrived, it looked much like a bottle of mostly crystallized honey, with a very little still oozy. In fact, I had to resist an urge to put some in my tea, but I digress. I assumed the crystallization was due to cold temps during transit, and I reckoned a day at room temperature (-ish, I left it in my basement which can dip into the lower 60s F) would return it to liquid form. Nothing doing! A day later, and it was still mostly crystallized. So, I ended up putting the bottle in a water bath -- 110F for twenty minutes, and this returned it to its liquid (thought still very viscous) state. On that note:
2. In order to get it properly diluted for development, I used 25C water which seemed to be about right to get it quickly incorporated; anything lower and I was stirring madly, and, looking for a way to get the remnants of the 10ml pour out of my graduated cylinder. Once incorporated, I poured cooler water in to reach 20C (well, to be very, very clear, I actually develop at 22C, so all numbers below were converted to 22, but I'll state them at 20 as that seems to be the standard).
3. Side-by-side comparison with HC-110 was interesting. Even though the website and reviews talk about the restrainers used in this developer, my negs developed with BWG were noticeably denser than the same shots developed with HC-110. Particulars:

A. Shot the same scene on two rolls of Tri-X 120. Same camera, same lens, same lighting.
B. Developed one roll with HC-110, Dilution H at 8 mins 20C [6:30 for 22C] (8 mins is a compromise between Tri-X spec sheet recommended time of 3.75 minutes with Dilution B, and Massive Dev recommendation of 4.5 minutes Dilution B)
C. Developed second roll with BWG at the recommended 13 mins, 20C [10:30 for 22C].
D. Same agitation both rolls: 1 minute (first minute), then ten seconds each following minute.

I swapped a few emails with the company to ask them about the crystallization. They stated that the freezing point of the concoction is 7C, and that it is a "poor conductor" which likely explains why it took so long to re-incorporate the crystals. Big kudos for Flic for being so responsive to my emails.

So...not sure yet how I ended up with denser negatives despite my expectation of thinner ones; I'll have to shoot another roll. I use a sous-vide to maintain a stable water temperature, so I am fairly confident I did not over-cook temperature wise. Perhaps too much agitation? There are no agitation instructions on the bottle, just time/temp, so I cannot comment on that.
 

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- this is a rather odd article as it includes HC-110 in a category of "speed" developers before making a strange comment about "pushed" film:

The three developers widely known for their incredible speed-boosting abilities are Ilfotec DD-X, and Microphen, and HC-110. Of the two, Microphen is the best developer created for pushing film, having been created for that exact purpose. This developer is also cheaper, and comes in 1L boxes, making it the perfect choice for photographers who only have a small amount of film that they want to push.

But Microphen is a powdered developer, which can be more difficult to use than a liquid developer. If powdered developers aren’t your thing, the next best developer for pushing film is also one of the most popular developers available.

HC-110 is another honorable mention on this list. It doesn’t provide a speed boost, but it does reduce the graininess of pushed negatives compared to other developers.
 

Dusty Negative

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- this is a rather odd article as it includes HC-110 in a category of "speed" developers before making a strange comment about "pushed" film:

The three developers widely known for their incredible speed-boosting abilities are Ilfotec DD-X, and Microphen, and HC-110. Of the two, Microphen is the best developer created for pushing film, having been created for that exact purpose. This developer is also cheaper, and comes in 1L boxes, making it the perfect choice for photographers who only have a small amount of film that they want to push.

But Microphen is a powdered developer, which can be more difficult to use than a liquid developer. If powdered developers aren’t your thing, the next best developer for pushing film is also one of the most popular developers available.

HC-110 is another honorable mention on this list. It doesn’t provide a speed boost, but it does reduce the graininess of pushed negatives compared to other developers.

Ha. Full disclosure — I didn’t read the entire article; was focused more on the photo comparisons.
 

Tom Kershaw

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Ha. Full disclosure — I didn’t read the entire article; was focused more on the photo comparisons.

I'm not alone in making this comment but assessing black & white film quality via scanned images can be difficult and / or give a misleading impression, bearing in mind all the variables associated with digitization, and the interaction of the film emulsion with scanner technology.
 
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Hubigpielover

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OK, received the bottle of Black, White, and Green film developer and have developed a roll of Tri-X with it. Here are my thoughts;

1. THIS STUFF IS VISCOUS. When it arrived, it looked much like a bottle of mostly crystallized honey, with a very little still oozy. In fact, I had to resist an urge to put some in my tea, but I digress. I assumed the crystallization was due to cold temps during transit, and I reckoned a day at room temperature (-ish, I left it in my basement which can dip into the lower 60s F) would return it to liquid form. Nothing doing! A day later, and it was still mostly crystallized. So, I ended up putting the bottle in a water bath -- 110F for twenty minutes, and this returned it to its liquid (thought still very viscous) state. On that note:
2. In order to get it properly diluted for development, I used 25C water which seemed to be about right to get it quickly incorporated; anything lower and I was stirring madly, and, looking for a way to get the remnants of the 10ml pour out of my graduated cylinder. Once incorporated, I poured cooler water in to reach 20C (well, to be very, very clear, I actually develop at 22C, so all numbers below were converted to 22, but I'll state them at 20 as that seems to be the standard).
3. Side-by-side comparison with HC-110 was interesting. Even though the website and reviews talk about the restrainers used in this developer, my negs developed with BWG were noticeably denser than the same shots developed with HC-110. Particulars:

A. Shot the same scene on two rolls of Tri-X 120. Same camera, same lens, same lighting.
B. Developed one roll with HC-110, Dilution H at 8 mins 20C [6:30 for 22C] (8 mins is a compromise between Tri-X spec sheet recommended time of 3.75 minutes with Dilution B, and Massive Dev recommendation of 4.5 minutes Dilution B)
C. Developed second roll with BWG at the recommended 13 mins, 20C [10:30 for 22C].
D. Same agitation both rolls: 1 minute (first minute), then ten seconds each following minute.

I swapped a few emails with the company to ask them about the crystallization. They stated that the freezing point of the concoction is 7C, and that it is a "poor conductor" which likely explains why it took so long to re-incorporate the crystals. Big kudos for Flic for being so responsive to my emails.

So...not sure yet how I ended up with denser negatives despite my expectation of thinner ones; I'll have to shoot another roll. I use a sous-vide to maintain a stable water temperature, so I am fairly confident I did not over-cook temperature wise. Perhaps too much agitation? There are no agitation instructions on the bottle, just time/temp, so I cannot comment on that.

Great write up. I might give it a try after once I get my darkroom knowledge back. Do you see it replacing your other developers? I am pretty sure I am going to start off with good ol Rodinal. but we will see. I am looking forward to experimenting with different developers.

Here’s an interesting visual comparison of negs developed in Black, White, and Green and several other developers:

https://www.learnfilm.photography/does-the-bw-film-developer-matter-and-which-one-is-right-for-you/

Thanks for sharing.
 

Dusty Negative

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Great write up. I might give it a try after once I get my darkroom knowledge back. Do you see it replacing your other developers? I am pretty sure I am going to start off with good ol Rodinal. but we will see. I am looking forward to experimenting with different developers.



Thanks for sharing.

Well, difficult to say. I haven’t shot film yet this year, and need to develop another few rolls before answering. One thing is for certain, I LOVE the simplicity of HC-110. No temperature hassles, no mess, no worries. B, W, & G is going to really have to demonstrate extraordinary shadow detail improvement over HC-110 to prompt me to change.

On that note - I notice that my bottle of B, W, & G has re-crystallized.
 
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