I'm not sure where you're coming from? the kit is quite clear, there are no water washes involved, and specific advice against doing it, so why would anyone ignore the manufacturers advice and use water? The only time you use water is for the pre-soak, that's it.
As I said, I asked directly at Bellini Foto SRL. They said you need to wash. If you use an automathic film processor it could be different, but bellini foto also produce specific products for minilab and automatic processors. I regularly use their RA4 and it's greate used it and Nik&trick, who sell it, and their own processing services, swear by it. It's made by a small Italian company who've been around since 1988 so I personally have no doubts about it considering their business is pretty much all about developing chemicals. It's a great little C41 kit, I'm just about to get some more.
To be honest I'm going to have to take that with a pinch of salt considering it's not on their Data sheetAs I said, I asked directly at Bellini Foto SRL. They said you need to wash. If you use an automathic film processor it could be different, but bellini foto also produce specific products for minilab and automatic processors. I regularly use their RA4 and it's great
http://www.bellinifoto.it/files_prodotti/109/files/48_kit_c_41.pdf
Is this your kit? It says you can do 16 rolls of film and, regarding the wash:
"We suggest to prepare 1 or 2 liters of Stabilizer, it can also be at room temp, and to wash 3 or 4 times the film changing the bath".
Also, isn't 45 seconds of bleach very... fast?
And you know the longevity is affected how? guesswork obviously.The reason to use a water wash is that it will likely result in longer lasting negatives.
But only if a post wash stabilizer is used as well.
The reason that processes are designed to avoid a water wash is that it allows for quicker throughput and lower costs - at the expense of longevity.
As I understand it, many modern minilabs are designed for a "waterless" process, so these chemicals would be consistent with that.
One of the Kodak Z information sheets - Z-100 - states at the top of page I-3:
"Wash
Most minilabs operate without a wash step; however, some older minilabs use wash water to remove residual chemicals from film or paper."
According to the advice given a separate water wash is discouraged, because it is bad.AND as we all know - minilabs wasn't the real experts to develope films in the past.
Mostly is was a "gambling" strategy with them. Some reached a good quality - others were mixing there baths with no real experience.
I would be allways a bit careful just when I hear the simple word "MINILAB".
On the other hand Fujihunt minilab chems are not so bad.I can't say if there are Kodak minilab chems still avaible in all countries.
But a "quick process" like this here may have an impact to long life stability?
I can't say what PE's expertise would be,
but I have a little guess from....
Just looking to the sticky threat on stabilizers. To me there are little doubts if it is so smart without washing step. Well - it may be quick - but what about possible long life issues ?
with regards
PS : You can say the washing step is to be done via special chems in stabalizer bath - but even if it may work good - is it so bad to have a water bath?
The reason to use a water wash is that it will likely result in longer lasting negatives.
But only if a post wash stabilizer is used as well.
The reason that processes are designed to avoid a water wash is that it allows for quicker throughput and lower costs - at the expense of longevity.
According to the advice given a separate water wash is discouraged, because it is bad.
According to the advice given a separate water wash is discouraged, because it is bad.
According to the advice given a separate water wash is discouraged, because it is bad.
But before or after stab? What harm can it do before stabilization? (I'm genuinely curious, I have this kit and will use it soon...)
No harm. And be aware "stabilizer" is a vague term, it can mean different things depending on process (eg. washless vs. standard-wash).
Ok - so if there are additional doubts on stabilizers from this kit - wy not "reformulate" in regard of the recipe PE gave with the use of formalin?
FROM MY oppinon it is not possible to have to much stabilizers in c41.
But this will need a water bath - wich is the intention of the manufacturer to avoid.
By the way - is this new kit a powder kit?
This would speak positive for the manufacturer because of long life from storage this kit.
Then the rest would be a secondary concern : water or no water ? Who cares about - then let's try out ?
with regards
Because the stab and wash are combined, this is how the kit is designed to work, washing it in water afterwards will presumably remove the benefit of this wash. Nik&Trick themselves are very specific about this, and they use Bellini chemicals for their commercial developing.But before or after stab? What harm can it do before stabilization? (I'm genuinely curious, I have this kit and will use it soon...)
Billed by Nik & Trick (who I buy supplies from fairly often) as 'The best C41 kit available anywhere'.
The datasheet shows a very short overall process with no washing.
In a few months once my Digibase kit is exhausted, I might have a go with this and report back!
Ok Fin - meanwile I found the instruction.
It's no powder kit but it has a seperate fix and bleach.
The statement of the manufacturer that no wash step is a need - should be a marketing issue. Therfore the manufacturer named it as "mono kit".
Several other kits are "3 bath kits" with
"blix" to me here (with belini) is a case the manufacturer is frightened that people don't like it and say : " No blix - 4 baths - no way to me - much to complicate "
Now my advice (also for twelvetone12)
if you like then use a water step after developing - it will help the shell live of the bleach !
If you like use a smal water step after bleach - if you can afford so much water....because bleach and fix is seperated
It is indeed no need but it will not damage your fixage....
At last you may use a final washing after fixing then following the instruction with stabilizer bath (without washing)
That should be a good method.
But then you have following steps :
1) developer
2) stopp bath (just water)
3) bleach
4) stopp bleach (just water) ....(yes I know there is no stopp - but let us name it)
5)fixing
6) final washing
7) stabilizer
It you like no 7 bath process you may cancel step 2 and step 4.
There isn't an urgend need but to me it is clever.
But I would indeed advice step6 - and to me it is marketing the manufacturer don't advice washing.
with regards
I have considered a quick stop wash between dev and bleach, bleach and fix, fix and stab, I take it you think this should be ok? I wouldn't wash after stab.
Not really.And you know the longevity is affected how? guesswork obviously.
These kits are designed for limited production home use, so I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with machine use, as most people don't use machines these days for home use.Not really.
The longevity issues arise because of the nature of C41 films and the C41 process. Unwanted ":stuff" gets left in the film unless it is removed.
The Bellini approach to wash and stabilize appears to be less complete than a full wash, and a separate full stabilization step thereafter.
It seems well suited to the remaining mini-lab market, because most of those machines are designed to be "washless", thus optimizing them for speed, lower energy use, and lower water use. They are not optimized for film longevity.
Not really.
The longevity issues arise because of the nature of C41 films and the C41 process. Unwanted ":stuff" gets left in the film unless it is removed.
The Bellini approach to wash and stabilize appears to be less complete than a full wash, and a separate full stabilization step thereafter.
It seems well suited to the remaining mini-lab market, because most of those machines are designed to be "washless", thus optimizing them for speed, lower energy use, and lower water use. They are not optimized for film longevity.
According to the advice given a separate water wash is discouraged, because it is bad.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?