Has Adox MCC 110 Changed?

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

In negotiations with Schoeller.

The point is that in the past manufacturers claimed that Schoeller made no or no reasonable offer, Schoeller however claimed that their offer is very reasonable. I was told the minimun order volume, but will not go into detail here.

But this minimum order quantity would be interesting to know. Of course Schoeller can make different papers. They make hundreds, but for other markets and in other quantities.
They consolidated in 2002 from 300g and 180g to 250g because neither size was ordered in sufficent amounts to sustain the production. Since then paper sales have decreased by another 60 to 80%. To be completely honest, it has never come to me even as an idea to ask them about a second version because my assumption is the MOQ will be much more than the entire production for a decade. If my assumption is wrong, then of course it would be possible.

 

[Lachlan Young]

@ADOX Fotoimpex - Have you explored using other non-baryta coated substrates for special versions of FB paper? It may be an unpopular opinion, but I'd actually prefer some options that aren't limited to what can be calendared/ dandy rolled into a baryta base - if Hahnemühle paper bases aren't available to you, could Zerkall or a similar mill that makes mould made papers (that can be finished to an extremely smooth surface) be an option to look into?

 

[ericdan]

A lot of people on this forum and people I know locally in my photography/darkroom community are very interested in different options for bases.
How about a survey to see what people really think?
To be honest, myself and the people I print with here in Tokyo have zero interest in the new Polywarmtone paper simply because we think or heard or assume the base will be the same as MCC. I’m not trying to be rude or complain but a lot of what made Forte a favorite for us here was the base AND emulsion combo.
I’m just trying to state my and my friends’ opinion. Other people may think differently. Thank you.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

...myself and the people I print with here in Tokyo have zero interest in the new Polywarmtone paper simply because we think or heard or assume the base will be the same as MCC...

That's exactly why I'm looking forward to ADOX Polywarmtone. The only change I'd appreciate seeing in both MCC and Polywarmtone (based on the prototype paper picture taken on a ferry as seen in the "News" section of ADOX's Web site) is reduced air-dried surface gloss. Mirko, aim for the "Goldilocks" sheen: just enough to support solid blacks, not so much that reflections intrude under typical room lighting when holding prints in one's hand. The supercoat, not base, is key to achieving this.

I have no interest in non-baryta FB papers. Anyone seeking dull prints can easily churn them out on mat inkjet papers using pigment ink.

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

A lot of people on this forum and people I know locally in my photography/darkroom community are very interested in different options for bases.
How about a survey to see what people really think?
To be honest, myself and the people I print with here in Tokyo have zero interest in the new Polywarmtone paper simply because we think or heard or assume the base will be the same as MCC. I’m not trying to be rude or complain but a lot of what made Forte a favorite for us here was the base AND emulsion combo.
I’m just trying to state my and my friends’ opinion. Other people may think differently. Thank you.

The quality of the base is a fundamental aspect of the manufacturing of a quality silver halide product. If the base is not perfect, you cannot coat a flawless paper on it.
It affects the evenness of coating (homogenity), coatability in general (coating tear offs, stripes, bands, adhesion), surface gloss, evenness of gloss, DMAX and of course the whites (light tones, color).
These are only the physical properties. For the chemical properties, we have the demand of no interactions with the silver halides, or the paper goes into fog over time.

So it is not a question of whether we can coat onto a different substrate (yes we can), but rather which image quality can the paper (still) deliver if coated onto an alternative substrate.

Forte ceased the 300g version in 2002 (!). We sold more paper on 250g after this date than we ever sold on the 300g base. The 17% less in weight is difficult to even feel.
I am afraid we are talking about a rather limited market potential here which will most likely not offset the implementation costs in producing the base.

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

That's exactly why I'm looking forward to ADOX Polywarmtone. The only change I'd appreciate seeing in both MCC and Polywarmtone (based on the prototype paper picture taken on a ferry as seen in the "News" section of ADOX's Web site) is reduced air-dried surface gloss. Mirko, aim for the "Goldilocks" sheen: just enough to support solid blacks, not so much that reflections intrude under typical room lighting when holding prints in one's hand. The supercoat, not base, is key to achieving this.

I have no interest in non-baryta FB papers. Anyone seeking dull prints can easily churn them out on mat inkjet papers using pigment ink.

Exactly. The gloss is difficult to get without a very well prepared subbing on the base. This is the reason why all heavier papers exisiting today are semi-gloss or matt.
The finetuning can be done via the supercoat.

 

[ericdan]

The quality of the base is a fundamental aspect of the manufacturing of a quality silver halide product. If the base is not perfect, you cannot coat a flawless paper on it.
It affects the evenness of coating (homogenity), coatability in general (coating tear offs, stripes, bands, adhesion), surface gloss, evenness of gloss, DMAX and of course the whites (light tones, color).
These are only the physical properties. For the chemical properties, we have the demand of no interactions with the silver halides, or the paper goes into fog over time.

So it is not a question of whether we can coat onto a different substrate (yes we can), but rather which image quality can the paper (still) deliver if coated onto an alternative substrate.

Forte ceased the 300g version in 2002 (!). We sold more paper on 250g after this date than we ever sold on the 300g base. The 17% less in weight is difficult to even feel.
I am afraid we are talking about a rather limited market potential here which will most likely not offset the implementation costs in producing the base.

Bromoforte, my favorite, is most definitely less thin than your MCC110. PW14 I agree feels thicker.