Harman Technology (Ilford) 2018 results

[AgX]

Fomapan make less of a range also - five products (Fompan 100,200,400,R and Retropan). vs Ilford's ten (Pan F, FP4, HP5, Delta 100,400,3200, XP2, SFX, Kentmere 100, 400)

Both, Harman and Foma make more products than just consumer films. Both make also consumer halide paper. Harman also cosumer ink-jet paper. and bot are active on the non-consumer field too.

And even if they both only would make consumer films, I do not see what relevance the number of type of these has on their size or revenue. It may though have effct on profitabilty, as with growing number of products the internal fixed costs grow.

 

[Henning Serger]

Me and PE repeatedly hinted at that coming bottleneck already many years ago, but were rather seen as doomsday preachers then.

All the current film and photo paper manufacturers have the intention to stay in business in the long term. And if you want that, you of course have to invest in education of new, younger employees when older ones retire. That is just normal business in general, in every long term oriented company.
And of course all the film / photo paper manufacturers know that and act accordingly: I have visited five film / paper manufacturers so far. And in four of them I also spoke to young(er) chemists / engineers which were hired to work there in the long term and are / have been educated there in special knowledge.
And in only one so far no new young employees were hired yet. But it is planned there, too.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[AgX]

I know the industry from the inside, know the engineers and chemists and their age and I followed the manufacturers recruiting over the last 10 years. Film manufacturing is a old industry in that sense. A chemist newly employed will not necessarily work on halide products.

 

[Arklatexian]

Honestly, there is no really reliable source for the statement that "all instant factory equipment" was scrapped. Only the usual internet BS.
I know of one (more reliable) source that said parts of the packing machinery were re-built for Instax production to keep up with the increasing demand. But that wasn't officially confirmed either.

But, more important:
This idea that you can simply buy machines from Fujifilm and then produce FP100c or 3000B again was a wet dream / fantasy by people who have no knowledge at all about film manufacturing. To produce these films you need
- the Fujifilm emulsion making machinery
- the Fujifilm coating machinery
- the Fujifilm staff (emulsionist and engineers)
- the Fujifilm converting / finishing / packing machinery including staff.
Of course Fujifilm cannot sell its emulsion making and coating machinery. Because that is needed for their other - profitable and demanded - film products. And of course they also cannot let their employees go.
And with just the converting machinery you cannot make films on the quality level of FP100C / 3000B. Period! It does not work at all. Film production is much too complex for such simple solutions ( I have seen five film factories from the inside, including the Polaroid factory in Enschede; I know how difficult film production is).

And yes: Preserve the Culture of Photography.
Fujifilm has exactly done that by saving colour transparency film! They alone have saved it when Kodak stopped all reversal film production in 2012.
Fujifilm instead continued production of several colour reversal films and also the E6 chemistry. And the chemistry both for professional labs and their E6 kit for home users.
Because of that the global infrastructure for E6 has been kept alive for the last years!
And only because of that Kodak had even the chance at all to come back with one transparency film. If Fujifilm would have done the same as Kodak - stopping all colour reversal film production - then the whole global E6 infrastructure would have been (almost) dead by now. And Kodak would have never re-introduced Ektachrome! Because with not enough E6 labs worldwide they would have never dared to re-intreduce Ektachrome.

I am very thankful that Kodak have finally realized they made a mistake by stopping reversal film production.And that they have Ektachrome again in their line.
But I also know who deserve a very big "thank you", too: Fujifilm. They made it possible that Ektachrome could come back. Without them and their permanent commitment to reversal film and chemistry production, we would have never seen Ektachrome back.

Best regards,
Henning

Henning, what are you trying to do? Confuse us with the facts rather than opinions, rumors, etc? I am so "shocked", I can only say "Thank You"!........Regards!

 

[Ariston]

I wish I could get all the seasoned professionals on this site together in one place so I could buy you dinner!

 

[Henning Serger]

I know the industry from the inside, know the engineers and chemists and their age and I followed the manufacturers recruiting over the last 10 years.

If that is really the case, then you should not hide your identity. Tell us your real name, show your face and give proof to your comments. Like all other members from the industry here are doing, like Ron Mowrey, Robert Shanebrook, Mirko Böddecker, Omer Hecht, Adrian Bacon, Dave Bias, FelimO'Connor etc.

Film manufacturing is a old industry in that sense. A chemist newly employed will not necessarily work on halide products.

Again: In contrast to you I have met these new, young(er) experts and talked to them in four different film factories. And all of them are working on new or improved silver-halide products!

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Henning Serger]

Henning, what are you trying to do? Confuse us with the facts rather than opinions, rumors, etc? I am so "shocked", I can only say "Thank You"!........Regards!

You are welcome.
I try my very best to give all of you the most accurate information as possible. I think in the era of click-baiting, influencers, marketing fairy tales, shitstorms caused by misinformation and hate instead of facts it is more important than ever to concentrate on the facts.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Henning Serger]

I wish I could get all the seasoned professionals on this site together in one place so I could buy you dinner!

Very good idea .
I really would like to meet experts like Ron Mowrey or Robert Shanebrook in person. Contact via email is just not the same at all as a real meeting and talking to someneone personally.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[dutchsteammachine]

You mean improvements to film has not stopped after 2008-ish?

What was the latest improvement in a decade to say Portra, Ektar, Vision3, Eterna, T-Max, Velvia, Provia, Ektachrome, Fujifilm Pro, Superia, Reala.

When Fuji stopped making Eterna, Kodak has had no reason to update their Vision3 to compete...

 

[Anon Ymous]

Portra films were updated in 2010-11 IIRC.

 

[MattKing]

The new Ektachrome - 2017-2018 - has a number of improvements.

 

[dutchsteammachine]

The new Ektachrome - 2017-2018 - has a number of improvements.

Hmm, such as? Got any datasheet comparisons so back it up?

 

[MattKing]

Hmm, such as? Got any datasheet comparisons so back it up?

From a very reliable source, who does know, but who I am not in a position to identify:
"With the 135 version, two entire color layer structures (6 emulsion layers) required complete rebuilding because the present chemical companies that could supply ** had differences that were not there in the 1999-2012 version of E100G. Once it was known that a rebuild was necessary, actual improvements were “fit in” to make the film a wee bit sharper, have more stability in keeping, and for the manufacturer, improve cold store keeping of the emulsions. (They) also adjusted the film’s sensitometric position so that the whites were whiter, and the colors more accurate. Coating additional layers and adjusting the layer structures for water & gel levels, and adjusting components to insure same sensitometry isn’t easy like some on Photrio might think."

 

[wyofilm]

From a very reliable source, who does know, but who I am not in a position to identify:
"With the 135 version, two entire color layer structures (6 emulsion layers) required complete rebuilding because the present chemical companies that could supply ** had differences that were not there in the 1999-2012 version of E100G. Once it was known that a rebuild was necessary, actual improvements were “fit in” to make the film a wee bit sharper, have more stability in keeping, and for the manufacturer, improve cold store keeping of the emulsions. (They) also adjusted the film’s sensitometric position so that the whites were whiter, and the colors more accurate. Coating additional layers and adjusting the layer structures for water & gel levels, and adjusting components to insure same sensitometry isn’t easy like some on Photrio might think."

Very cool. Thanks, Matt.

 

[iandvaag]

Yeah, thanks for sharing that, Matt.

 

[MattKing]

You are welcome.
I'm looking forward to the 120 version, and for those who use it, the sheet film too.

 

[mshchem]

I'm saving up for 120 Ektachrome. From what I've seen it's a great product. I have Fujichrome (s) I will ge breaking out for Autumn color here in the Midwest USA. I was hoping for Ektachrome 120 for fall slides. Hopefully it will be here by Spring.
The best Cibachrome prints I was able to produce from medium format E6 was on regular Ektachrome. Not the VS, Warm etc.
I love MF slides.

 

[Team ADOX]

I know the industry from the inside, know the engineers and chemists and their age and I followed the manufacturers recruiting over the last 10 years.

There is no evidence for that given by you. Neither for the first part, nor the second part of your sentence.
ADOX has hired several young, very enthusiastic and qualified new employees. And we are investing in further education of our new team members.
Furthermore we know that another five film manufacturers have also hired new, younger staff.

ADOX - Innovation In Analog Photography.

 

[AgX]

I was referring to academic engineers and chemists. Not younger staff in general.

 

[miha]

There is no evidence for that given by you. Neither for the first part, nor the second part of your sentence.
ADOX has hired several young, very enthusiastic and qualified new employees. And we are investing in further education of our new team members.
Furthermore we know that another five film manufacturers have also hired new, younger staff.

ADOX - Innovation In Analog Photography.

The many videos and photos showing Harman, Ferrania, Kodak and Foma Bohemia reveal no young workers. All seems to be 50+ Maybe Adox staff is younger but the video showing Rodinal bottling is no different.

 

[Lachlan Young]

The many videos and photos showing Harman, Ferrania, Kodak and Foma Bohemia reveal no young workers. All seems to be 50+ Maybe Adox staff is younger but the video showing Rodinal bottling is no different.

You clearly haven't watched the video about Harman that was recently released - the R&D researcher in it was definitely a recent younger recruit. And Foma had stated in an interview (which I cannot immediately reference) that they were working with the relevant higher educational establishments to recruit & train new staff for the specialist roles involved in film & paper manufacture.

 

[miha]

You clearly haven't watched the video about Harman that was recently released - the R&D researcher in it was definitely a recent younger recruit. And Foma had stated in an interview (which I cannot immediately reference) that they were working with the relevant higher educational establishments to recruit & train new staff for the specialist roles involved in film & paper manufacture.

This one?


Maybe You should have another look? I don't know what your point is. One young researcher among all the rest that are 50 or 60+

 

[macfred]

I would like my films hand-rolled on the thigh inner side of a youthful lady ...

 

[Team ADOX]

I was referring to academic engineers and chemists. Not younger staff in general.

Which again shows that you don't have any inside knowledge of our current industry at all. Because the industry has hired and is hiring chemists, engineers and photographers with academic education and degrees. We know from five film manufacturers doing that. Our own company included. Almost all of our recently hired experts have academic education and degrees. Just about a year ago we hired another chemist as emulsionist. This young chemist has a Ph.D. in chemistry, and is also a passionate film photographer (even using large format).
Unfortunately your comments about our industry and our common industry efforts to further strengthen the film renaissance are often very far away from current reality. And ignoring recent positive changes. Please stop that, because wrong information is counterproductive for the film renaissance all in the industry are working so hard for. Thanks.

ADOX - Innovation In Analog Photography.

 

[AgX]

Please let us discuss that further via PM (I did not brake that contact), because your accusations in their generality are not fair, and I can give proof.


But, let us assume that change has taken place within the last two years or so. And further that all these academic engineers and chemists are working on halide products.
That still means that for many, many years the industry was not willing to look ahead, ignoring the coming bottleneck. And that basically it still is an "old" industry without a grown age structure.

With "ignoring" of course I exclude Mirko's endeavours with Adox.