Harman Price Increases

[Prest_400]

Harman have a very strong balance sheet.

That's nice to hear.
It would be interesting to know the situation of other manufacturers. I heard that efke almost went with Forte a few years ago. I wonder how is well is Foma.

 

[MattKing]

Harman have a very strong balance sheet.

I just hope that the existence of this thread isn't the reason that Simon Galley appears to be avoiding posting on APUG.

Simon, would it help if we forgave you for the price increases in the UK and (probably) Europe ?

Matt

 

[Matt5791]

That's nice to hear.
It would be interesting to know the situation of other manufacturers. I heard that efke almost went with Forte a few years ago. I wonder how is well is Foma.

I think Foma live "hand to mouth" to be honest. Orders come in, and they make it. As opposed to Ilford, Kodak, etc etc. Who make it, stock it, and distribute it as required.

Of all the stuff have ordered from Ilford in the past 8 weeks (and it's been a lot) only 2 items have not been available. The rest of the order was sent and then the missing item was sent immediately. For example, FP4 35mm went out of stock one afternoon - but of course Ilford have the mother rolls stacked up - Our order arrived in the morning the next day, minus FP4 35mm, then, 3 hours later, a UPS special delivery of the FP4 35mm.

Contrast: We are out of Efke infrared AURA. Maybe we will get some in 3 weeks. That is the best guess.

Foma and Efke are cheap, but there is an expensive price for this - if you get my meaning.

I have been in business since I left university and Ilford are one of the most organised and switched on comapanies I have ever dealt with. Everyone is totally on the ball, and everyone understands the products and the business.

With all this in mind, I think Ilford offer a great price for their products! It's the price of reliability and quality - you pays your money and you take your choice.

Matt
PS - Fotoimpex are also very switched on a reliable! - although this thread is about Ilford I thought I needed to mention that in the context of this post.

 

[Steve Roberts]

I just hope that the existence of this thread isn't the reason that Simon Galley appears to be avoiding posting on APUG.

I suspect it would take more than a bit of chuntering and grumbling here to cause Simon/Ilford to keep a low profile! I emailed Simon/Ilford independently of APUG on a totally different matter some four weeks ago and have never had a reply, so I guess there are other reasons (eg all hands to the pumps in these difficult economic times).

Steve

 

[steven_e007]

Didn't Simon say in a post a week or two back that he was off on his hols?

 

[Tom Kershaw]

Foma and Efke are cheap, but there is an expensive price for this - if you get my meaning.

Matt

Foma film is cheap but some of their papers such as Nature 532 II are not particularly so.

Tom

 

[Prest_400]

I think Foma live "hand to mouth" to be honest. Orders come in, and they make it. As opposed to Ilford, Kodak, etc etc. Who make it, stock it, and distribute it as required.

Of all the stuff have ordered from Ilford in the past 8 weeks (and it's been a lot) only 2 items have not been available. The rest of the order was sent and then the missing item was sent immediately. For example, FP4 35mm went out of stock one afternoon - but of course Ilford have the mother rolls stacked up - Our order arrived in the morning the next day, minus FP4 35mm, then, 3 hours later, a UPS special delivery of the FP4 35mm.

Contrast: We are out of Efke infrared AURA. Maybe we will get some in 3 weeks. That is the best guess.

Foma and Efke are cheap, but there is an expensive price for this - if you get my meaning.

I have been in business since I left university and Ilford are one of the most organised and switched on comapanies I have ever dealt with. Everyone is totally on the ball, and everyone understands the products and the business.

With all this in mind, I think Ilford offer a great price for their products! It's the price of reliability and quality - you pays your money and you take your choice.

Matt
PS - Fotoimpex are also very switched on a reliable! - although this thread is about Ilford I thought I needed to mention that in the context of this post.

Wow, That was very informative, thank you.
I'll support Ilford and the other commited companies as much as I'll be able to; They deserve it.

 

[RichardE]

I'll support Ilford and the other commited companies as much as I'll be able to; They deserve it.

So will I (despite my occasional "grumblings" at Ilford, Kodak and the rest....I think that these really should be directed at the bad economic times, the sidelining of analogue in favour of an inferior system and what this does to one-great companies, worrying about future availability and prices, etc., etc. In the meantime, I really am still getting on and enjoying my photography as much as, and probably more than, I every have! )

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Foma and Efke film and paper is on par with Ilford price wise here in the US. At the current time, at Freestyle in California, you can get a 120 roll of HP5 for $3.49 and a roll of Efke is $3.99. A box of Ilford Warmtone is about $105 (8x10" Qty 100), and Foma 131 is about the same.

To me it's all expensive! The company I work for is very very seriously hunting profit margin. That makes every sale more sensible. A few less sales might occur due to a price increase, but every sale will count more. Very important. I like the availability of Ilford products. I can buy it around the corner (for a premium of about 20% compared to Freestyle, but still!), and the quality and consistency is amazing. Same with Kodak and Fuji film.
Right now it so happens I can't really afford to buy any of it, but that's not Ilford's fault. When I am able to get things turned around, I'll be purchasing Tmax 400 film and Ilford paper again.

- Thomas

 

[Tom Kershaw]

Thomas,

I can imagine that I could get hold of any available ILFORD product within a week here in the UK, so yes, availability does make ILFORD attractive. You don't have to wait 3 months for the next shipment.

Tom

 

[CBG]

Harman have a very strong balance sheet.

That matters more than all the grumbling over price. If Ilford can continue to offer products we want and stays in business, we all win.

 

[RichardE]

Harman have a very strong balance sheet.

Yes, but only a relatively tiny profit last year....no-one is getting rich at our expense. (No inside knowledge, the full accounts are on public file, as are all UK limited companies....even my own little husband-and-wife company )

 

[fotch]

Didn't Simon say in a post a week or two back that he was off on his hols?

Don't think so. The last post was many weeks ago however, the statistics show "Last Activity: Today 09:10 AM". Does this mean he was on line?

 

[Prest_400]

Don't think so. The last post was many weeks ago however, the statistics show "Last Activity: Today 09:10 AM". Does this mean he was on line?

I think so.
Maybe if he is on holiday, he may have read this thread, but this is business related and he decides to leave it as is until he's again in work. There's a (small) possibility that he hasn't seen this Thread.
Probably, Martin has said anything necessary and Ilford has left it to run itself alone; But, a confirmation from Simon would be nice to read.

 

[bill schwab]

Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but I just received notice from the US distributor of Ilford products that

"Ilford B&W will be increasing their prices on Oct 1st. The price increase will be anywhere from 4-15% across the board. Lastly, Ilford will not be honoring backorders so if you would like to get an order in before the increase let me know as soon as can."

Bill

 

[Solarize]

Ciaran,

Are printing with the Foma paper for your portrait work?

Tom

Sorry I missed this earlier. I have done a little with Foma (MG Glossy), but the vast majority is Ilford WTFB in a Warmtone developer with either (or both) Sepia and Selenium toning. Nothing too drastic, but I don't care for the olive cast without toning.

Ciaran

 

[Chazzy]

Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but I just received notice from the US distributor of Ilford products that

"Ilford B&W will be increasing their prices on Oct 1st. The price increase will be anywhere from 4-15% across the board. Lastly, Ilford will not be honoring backorders so if you would like to get an order in before the increase let me know as soon as can."

Bill

Ilford is really over a barrel. They have to maintain a certain margin in order to remain in business, but if they raise their prices too much, they will lose market share to cheaper alternatives. I hope that when we consider our purchases we will remember Ilford's support for analogue photography, such as its participation in the Impossible Project, its bending over backwards to provide unusual sheet film sizes and perhaps most of all the participation of Simon in APUG. What has Foma done for the cause of traditional photography lately?

 

[lns]

Ilford is really over a barrel. They have to maintain a certain margin in order to remain in business, but if they raise their prices too much, they will lose market share to cheaper alternatives. I hope that when we consider our purchases we will remember Ilford's support for analogue photography, such as its participation in the Impossible Project, its bending over backwards to provide unusual sheet film sizes and perhaps most of all the participation of Simon in APUG. ...

Well said. I would add that Fuji also makes every effort to show its commitment to film. I also like Kodak for continuing to make improvements in their films.

Let's face it: prices are going to continue increasing for most of the materials we use. It's the inevitable effect of a shrinking market. In fact, a race to compete on price would be disasterous for the companies remaining in analog photography. Look at what happened to Agfa. If suppliers don't make a profit, they will not remain in business.

-Laura

 

[Ektagraphic]

I suppose that it costing more and more to make film. They have to make money too....but I cant see a 25% price increase

 

[Martin Reed]

Ilford is really over a barrel. They have to maintain a certain margin in order to remain in business, but if they raise their prices too much, they will lose market share to cheaper alternatives. I hope that when we consider our purchases we will remember Ilford's support for analogue photography, such as its participation in the Impossible Project, its bending over backwards to provide unusual sheet film sizes and perhaps most of all the participation of Simon in APUG. What has Foma done for the cause of traditional photography lately?

I don't think we need to worry too much about Ilford being toppled by the competition, at the end of the day they're in charge of b&w and have been for a long time. A certain amount of competition is healthy and keeps the market vibrant.

The greatest problem Harman have is getting their products to market when the traditional distribution channels are diminishing. Some dealers have recently been giving Harman a lot of flack for what they see as reduced support. However it's clear that the majority of users prefer getting supplies through dealers. I tend to think the market re-shuffle going on (certainly in the UK) is actually a business opportunity, and committed dealers should benefit in helping Harman through this period.

 

[Ian Grant]

The greatest problem Harman have is getting their products to market when the traditional distribution channels are diminishing. Some dealers have recently been giving Harman a lot of flack for what they see as reduced support. However it's clear that the majority of users prefer getting supplies through dealers. I tend to think the market re-shuffle going on (certainly in the UK) is actually a business opportunity, and committed dealers should benefit in helping Harman through this period.

Many of Ilford's problems around the time of administration were caused by crtain wholesale/retailers suddenly cutting their stock levels in stores ant at their warehouse drastically. One company (UK) in particular did none of us any favours.

Martin's comments about the UK market are similar for much of the EU & North America.

However the traditional distribution chain has almost broken down in most other countries, this isn't unique to Ilford, it's even worse for Kodak materials except consumer colour print films.

This is an area I've looked into, and done some research, talking to dealers, stockists etc.

It's a time of change we as photographers actually need to begin to take a active role, badgering stockists, suppliers etc.

Ilford, Kodak, Fuji, Foma, EFKE & Fotoimpex/partners make materials, we want materials but their are only a few dedicated dealers supporting us, without more new people won't be attracted to analag photography.

Overseas Photographers get stung by postage, import taxes etc , they need help too. An APUG member paid £35/$55 for a bottle of Rodinal last week because the system has almost gone entirely here in Turkey.

We need to stand and be counted, and unite.

Martin Reed took over Peter Goldfield's mantle in his approach and has done a superb job, he knows the problems.

Ian

 

[UNITOL2]

As a U.K. Ilford dealer and traditional film photographer I am very keen to see film survive, as Ilford increase their prices (mainly due to the cost of silver I believe), I still intend to sell their products even if the price increases make this harder for me to do, I am doing it mainly because of my personal commitment to film.
If you wish to support small one man dealers like myself and in turn Ilford then please visit my website at www.cliffordstreetphotography.com where I still have stock at pre-increase prices, once this stock has gone my prices will have to rise slightly to cover Ilfords increases.
Best Regards,
Cliff.

 

[mgb74]

...Ilford, Kodak, Fuji, Foma, EFKE & Fotoimpex/partners make materials, we want materials but their are only a few dedicated dealers supporting us, without more new people won't be attracted to analag photography...

Ian makes an excellent point that frankly had initially escaped me. As I read the comments about dealer stocking, I'm thinking that I am generally quite content ordering via mail from Freestyle, B&H, etc. I buy some things locally, but more to support retailers than for my own convenience.

But someone thinking about trying film for the first time (many today began their photographic efforts with digital - even more will in the future) won't go through the effort of mail ordering film. It will be a "opportunistic" experience, using that old slr in the back of the closet and film they can easily buy.

 

[delphine]

We need to stand and be counted, and unite.

This is so true, there is too often a lack of vision.

 

[Matt5791]

But someone thinking about trying film for the first time (many today began their photographic efforts with digital - even more will in the future) won't go through the effort of mail ordering film. It will be a "opportunistic" experience, using that old slr in the back of the closet and film they can easily buy.

Not sure I 100% agree. I think the first thing people do when they want to try film is google it, do some research and then, most likely, buy on line.

Is there an "effort" to mail ordering film? I don't think so.

Arguably, film and associated products, are extremely easy to obtain now, although I would accept this is not necessarily the case in some countries.

Matt