Harman Photo cryptic announcement/teaser

[Dustin McAmera]

It's coming home, It's coming home, It's coming...

 

[koraks]

From what I recall, only Agfa's print materials claimed 2 supercoats, almost all other print (as opposed to camera) products from Ilford, Fuji etc claim 1 (and Fuji tends to disclose supercoats)

My mention of two identical layers of topcoat and a UV protection layer beneath this goes back to my recent plant visit, specific parts of the coating installation I saw there and the questions I asked about it. I don't know about the Agfa and Ilford papers. I do see plenty of ways how documentation released to the general public would simplify matters and leave out details that are irrelevant to most of the outside world.

Either way, the point is that Ilford have an established cooperation with Fuji and a production scalability that Fuji don't have - which means that if it is a colour product - and I am in no way certain that it is - then it's likely going to have significant Fuji input.

There's of course always the possibility that Harman has asked Fuji to manufacture paper for them under a Harman brand. If (and that's a VERY big 'if') this is about RA4 paper, this would be the sensible way to go about it. This is entirely within Fuji's capability and normal business practices.

I don't see any sane reason why Fuji would be involved in setting up a partial competitor to its own color paper manufacturing capabilities after having played the competitive end game with the result of them being the last man standing. Again, it doesn't add up.

But really, there would be not much sense in an RA4 product for Harman anyway. It doesn't mesh with the crowd they've approached with it. It's more likely something film-related.

 

[tykos]

So the same as Analogue Wonderland If they can't tell us then why bother to even announce that they know The only reason I can think of is that both parties are saying; "Look we are in the know as privileged parties so pay more attention to us"

I wonder how that message helps them. I could never guess

pentaxuser

well, when something gets announced usually they have creators and influencers ready to post contents about that novelty in real time. With Kentmere 120 there was a flood of videos published seconds after the official statement from Harman and every one of them showed the results of using those films, this helps keep the hype up and showcase the product.
If this is the case, there's already someone that has this new thing in hands and is producing contents about it.
Nico's discourse was a little different though, he more or less said "i received the card, i asked them if it was what i was thinking of, they confirmed". Maybe this time they didn't send away the products early? Maybe they didn't send it to him? Well, we will know sooner or later.

 

[Lachlan Young]

My mention of two identical layers of topcoat and a UV protection layer beneath this goes back to my recent plant visit, specific parts of the coating installation I saw there and the questions I asked about it. I don't know about the Agfa and Ilford papers. I do see plenty of ways how documentation released to the general public would simplify matters and leave out details that are irrelevant to most of the outside world.

And that is absolutely fair - there are some Fuji film products that appear to have no fewer than 3 topcoat layers - and there is evidence from other colour film manufacturers' practices that further filtration layers were sometimes added after production (in the past) to resolve colour imbalance issues.

As it is, it's probably not a colour material at all. I increasingly suspect that it's likely a return of the Harman DPP on an RC or opaque polyester base and/ or another run of the 8x10 pinhole cameras as both would seem a better fit with the remit of Harman (Vs Ilford/ Kentmere) branded products that have previously existed.

 

[logan2z]

So the same as Analogue Wonderland If they can't tell us then why bother to even announce that they know The only reason I can think of is that both parties are saying; "Look we are in the know as privileged parties so pay more attention to us"

I wonder how that message helps them. I could never guess

pentaxuser

Apparently they can't even say when they'll be able to say

 

[logan2z]

Some of us old farts may not especially like this kind of marketing but it really works with the under 30s who are said to be driving the resurgence in film.

I was just watching the YouTube video below discussing the Filmstock 2023 event recently put on by KEH and The Darkroom photo lab, and couldn't help but notice the demographic of the attendees. I think it's great that so many younger folks are into film photography and think that Harman/Ilford/whoever is behind this marketing campaign is doing the absolutely right thing by gearing their marketing to them.

 

[Supercine]

People seem to think it’s colour related. But what else might it be?
A tie-in with a camera manufacturer to launch a new film camera? Pentax have said they want to make a new one. Perhaps Harman have been speaking to others. A good mid range camera would be good.
The whole different Ilfords thing is confusing. So either they wish to separate themselves more and make the Harman brand more distinctive, or, closer ties to bring the Ilfords back together?
Nobody (to my knowledge) is making Kodak chemistry anymore after Sino Promise failed. could Harman do a deal to make it?

 

[Ian Grant]

Harman outsource their chemistry production, so no.

Ian

 

[pentaxuser]

Nobody (to my knowledge) is making Kodak chemistry anymore after Sino Promise failed. could Harman do a deal to make it?

Except that Harman does not make its own chemistry anyway and if it contracted its present chemical producers to make what was known as Kodak chemicals but presumably re-labels them Ilford or Harman or indeed any other name then it ensuring that it is competing against itself, isn't it?

pentaxuser

 

[Supercine]

Except that Harman does make its own chemistry anyway and if it contracted its present chemical producers to make what was known as Kodak chemicals but presumably re-labels them Ilford or Harman or indeed any other name then it ensuring that it is competing against itself, isn't it?

pentaxuser

I hear what you say, but Kodak make film for Fuji and also Harman/Ilford make film for Fuji. Kodak make film for CineStill. All this could be seen as competing against yourself, but they still do it!
I was trying to think what it could be if it wasn’t Colour film related…

 

[Agulliver]

People seem to think it’s colour related. But what else might it be?
A tie-in with a camera manufacturer to launch a new film camera? Pentax have said they want to make a new one. Perhaps Harman have been speaking to others. A good mid range camera would be good.
The whole different Ilfords thing is confusing. So either they wish to separate themselves more and make the Harman brand more distinctive, or, closer ties to bring the Ilfords back together?
Nobody (to my knowledge) is making Kodak chemistry anymore after Sino Promise failed. could Harman do a deal to make it?

Ricoh/Pentax have stated that their market research is mostly with the younger demographic in Japan. And have made it very clear their first two cameras will be 35mm compacts, possibly appearing in the spring of next year. They'll be Pentax branded and I don't see any logic in calling them Harman over here.

IT's possible that Harman are arranging production of a camera, don't they already do a single use and a basic plastic "reusable" camera under the Harman name? As well as a couple of decent pinhole cameras (Harman Titan, for example). It doesn't seem logical to create a whole new website and set of social media accounts for this..

But I do think it's good to ponder what this might be if it's not colour film. This is more than hyping Kentmere in 120, Ortho 80 or the dark tent on the existing Ilford channels....this is a major, whole new website and set of social media accounts. I totally get the idea that it's Cibachrome or colour film, if we assume it's a phoenix. But I do doubt they're in any position to achieve those. What else could it be, that they can't or don't want to sell under the Ilford banner?

 

[pentaxuser]

This is more than hyping Kentmere in 120, Ortho 80 or the dark tent on the existing Ilford channels....this is a major, whole new website and set of social media accounts. I totally get the idea that it's Cibachrome or colour film, if we assume it's a phoenix. But I do doubt they're in any position to achieve those. What else could it be, that they can't or don't want to sell under the Ilford banner?

It's certainly a different hype, apparently aimed at a younger demographic which I can believe but beyond that I have seen nothing by way of hard evidence that it is necessarily as big as we allow our imaginations to believe it will be

pentaxuser

 

[Dmosher]

From a strategic standpoint, a new camera would make a lot of sense. The current supply of used 35mm and 120 cameras won't last forever. Without cameras to shoot film in their whole reason to exist would evaporate...

 

[Xylo]

From a strategic standpoint, a new camera would make a lot of sense.

I do agree with that.
It's something they can outsource easily and just stick their name on it. They already resurrected the Sprite 35, why not a version of the Pixie, Sportman or Imp?

Now, the big questions still remain: 35mm or 120? Glass or plastic lens? Manual focus or fixed focus?

 

[Agulliver]

Harman already sell a couple of cheap 35mm cameras.

At present nobody is manufacturing something that would bridge the gap between the cheap plastic Reto/Kodak/Harman/Holga type cameras and Leica. That's what Richo/Pentax is looking to do. And possibly Mint.

I suppose someone else could have been researching a mid range film camera, under the radar without us noticing. Something like the Sportsman would possibly have a market and not impact on Pentax because it's a different kind of camera if it's all manual control and what would have been "entry level" in the past.

This has to be something Harman consider big, because they are going to a lot of effort. The new website and social media accounts won't exactly come cheap. But I remain sceptical that it's Cibachrome or colour film.

 

[mshchem]

No way it's anything HARD.

My guess if it's a legendary Phoenix, rising from the ashes.......

It could be Kodak brands of black and white chemistry under Harman name.

I don't know but it's nothing that would involve capital (over £10k).

Could be something to do with settling Sino Promise bankruptcy.

 

[Melvin J Bramley]

I cannot see Harman producing anything that uses environmentally degrading chemistry as in colour papers or films.

 

[mshchem]

I cannot see anything hard to accomplish that isn't going to return cash

The capital company who runs Ilford understands business, that's for certain.

Portfolio of black and white products is what I would look for.

 

[koraks]

I cannot see Harman producing anything that uses environmentally degrading chemistry as in colour papers or films.

I'd like to see the LCA's that support your statement. I don't think they hold any water, to be frank.

 

[pentaxuser]

I don't know but it's nothing that would involve capital (over £10k).

Could be something to do with settling Sino Promise bankruptcy.

Do I take it that both of the above are the proverbial tongue in cheek statements With inflation a night out in the West End of London will soon involve capital of over £10,000

pentaxuser

 

[mshchem]

I cannot see Harman producing anything that uses environmentally degrading chemistry as in colour papers or films.

Color prints and films are silver free. Silver is considered a "heavy metal" . Commercial labs recovery silver from fixer and bleach, regenerate bleach.
Analog photography is pretty low impact, just stay away from old school mercury, chromium and uranium formulas

 

[mshchem]

Do I take it that both of the above are the proverbial tongue in cheek statements With inflation a night out in the West End of London will soon involve capital of over £10,000

pentaxuser

Yes indeed Same here just in excess of £1,000

 

[mshchem]

 

[AnselMortensen]

Ok, I have it on good authority ...
(from my neighbor's cat)
that it's a peel-apart instant Kodachrome that is stand developed in caffenol...the process also uses a pre-soak, stop bath and 'driveway cleaner'.

 

[mshchem]

Ok, I have it on good authority ...
(from my neighbor's cat)
that it's a peel-apart instant Kodachrome that is stand developed in caffenol...the process also uses a pre-soak, stop bath and 'driveway cleaner'.

Nico talked!!!