Looking at the prices on ebay for 220 film backs it must be 220 film.
Well, perhaps. I think come 1 December, we'll see. And if they managed this, I will be impressed for sure. It has always seemed like an unlikely scenario to me given the complexities involved.
Or, I might say "I hope you're right". As I've said before, another manufacturer of a functional C41 color film would be very welcome. It's clear present demand is not being met very well.
PS: the work in Marly AFAIK pertained only to dye destruction technology. Ilford's forays in E6 and CN technology were back in the 1960s, so I wonder how much currently relevant knowledge for a C41 color product would exist at Harman. Unless they've accumulated it recently, of course. There's always that possibility.
I was about to buy some 220 backs a few weeks ago on the prospect that this was the case, but I decided it really isn't likely. Just not enough volume and 220 was really only heavy shooters (commercial shooters) back in the day anyway. For every roll of 220 I sold, I sold 20 or more 120 film probably. But the 220 shooters would buy them in bricks...Looking at the prices on ebay for 220 film backs it must be 220 film.
Sadly, 220 isn’t happening, we know this for sure. If it was possible, we would have 400D in 220.Looking at the prices on ebay for 220 film backs it must be 220 film.
Get 220 backs regardless, they work fine for 120. And yeah, us 220 shooters absolutely would buy the stuff in bricks (I bought 5 rolls of Aerocolor in 220 from Reflx… lol)I was about to buy some 220 backs a few weeks ago on the prospect that this was the case, but I decided it really isn't likely. Just not enough volume and 220 was really only heavy shooters (commercial shooters) back in the day anyway. For every roll of 220 I sold, I sold 20 or more 120 film probably. But the 220 shooters would buy them in bricks...
They made EP-2 and RA-4 paper
The nice folks at Harman have always told anyone who asked that they lack the knowledge and equipment to make colour film. Up-thread someone said that the Harman coating machine can do 5 layers, with C41 colour film needing a minimum of 15 layers. And XP2 is irrelevant because isn't it just three layers? And without a lot of the tech that goes into C41 colour films.
But,....that info is a little out of date, pre-pandemic I think. So it is not impossible that they've spent a lot of effort in the last 3 years on colour film and cracked it. But the folk at Inoviscoat, who had equipment and relevant knowledge haven't after years of trying. And in the entire history of the photo film industry only Kodak, Fuji, Agfa, Sakura/Konica and maybe the old Ferrania ever perfected C41 colour film. Whereas there were plenty of decent B&W film manufacturers and people even today can make B&W emulsions at home on glass plates.
If Harman really have achieved moving from B&W only to making a decent C41 film of saleable quality in just a few years.....it will be a feat unique in the photo industry. But, it's looking like they at least believe that's what they've done. And I really hope they have. Because someone to fill the gaps in amateur 35mm colour film that Kodak and Fuji currently cannot would be great, as would one more sizeable company in the colour film game.
I think we're also forgetting that (unlike other operations), Ilford would not be going from a standing start and already has significant institutional knowledge about key elements relating to scavengers, dye ballasting etc - what they will have lacked is the specific knowledge for integrating extant capabilities into a colour material - and I would add that that was always the effective message of their corporate response - to the effect of 'not right now, we lack specific knowledge [from recall, they never said a lack of capacity in terms of manufacturing components or finished product], but if the right people happened to become available...' That they have significant experience with CD4 couplers also counts very strongly against it being anything other than a colour neg stock if it is indeed a colour film. I think we often underestimate Ilford's abilities in areas like controlled crystal growth technology precisely because they don't make colour products.
Whatever it is is quite likely towards the upper end of the 100-400 range, and probably isn't a deep IR sensitised B&W material.
I hope it is colour film but the numbers employed in their R&D department have remained pretty much the same over the last 10 years. Over that period they have spent around £4m on plant and other fixed assets of which £2.9m was in the last 5 years. Assuming some of this is replacing existing equipment it seems pretty low, based on what I've read, for the step change that colour film would entail. But we'll see in 11 days time I guess.
I wouldn't rule out the possibility of their having hired an engineer or two away from any of the current color manufacturers. And I don't see why, if it is color film, they would settle for a consumer level ColorPlus competitor. I know this is waaaaaayyyy out there, but why not aim for a 400 iso Ektar? That would knock everybody's sox off and more than justify all the hype.
I've been noticing a few posts deleted for being "off topic". How can anything manage to be off topic in this thread?...
A Dutch star-chef just started recently to serve crow. It seems to be quite common in Scotland.
Why couldn't be color, C-41 film, but custom manufactured by someone else? Seems to all the rage these days...
There still seems to be doubt among some that it is color film, but what else could it be? Harman have essentially confirmed that it is a new 135 format film. I agree with many others that it seems very unlikely they would make a black and white film outside of Ilford Photo. That leaves color film.
I think another good color reversal film would be nice to have, but the general opinion seems to be that color negative film would be the more popular film for them. This still leaves the question of high-grade accurate color film or some sort of novelty color film.
but if the doubts by some about their ability to make high-grade color film are true, I suppose that could mean that Harman have decided to enter the questionable world of novelty film.
Personally, I still think Harman would be capable of making high-grade color film if they had the desire and resources to put towards it. The knowledge exists. It is not like this has never been done before. And they already have a significant manufacturing base into which it sounds like they have been further investing a lot in the last few years.
I would very much hope that Harman would stick with making high-grade film,!!
Me too and black and white at that.
Stick to what works KISS!!
Becoming too stretched out and competing against an energetic but limited market could be the death of black and white photography.
More importantly, why are off-topic posts deleted when the "Forum Rules" say nothing that would prohibit them?
Wild speculation again: For those that brought up a ISO400 E6 film, there is actually some unfinished business there:
In 2022 JCH (Bellamy) announced that they were going to commercialise a new E6 400 film, "Fugufilm", supposedly manufactured by another player than Fuji or Kodak and originating as a new formula. Apparently commercialization stalled due to soared toll manufacturing costs.
Inovis has been doing a lot for the Orwo et al films, and most possibly was the partner for JCH, but but?
My point is, there was an effort to manufacture an E6 ISO400 film that is alright-ish and the recipe is out there without knowing who created it.
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