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Details can be found in post #344. The info was provided by Giles Branthwaite, Sales & Marketing Director at Harman.
Sorry, but I have watched the whole interview, and I have not heard such a statement of having "millions" invested in new products.
Maybe I missed that. So please give us the exact point in the interview with that statement, thanks.
Looking at the published balance sheets of Harman technology I also doubt their financial capability to invest "millions" (= several million Brit pounds) in a new product.
Please read the Adox announcement when they introduced this film: They honestly said that this film was not made by themselves, but by a film manufacturer which got into insolvency. They simply bought the coating run of that company which the producer could not distribute anymore because of their insolvency.
And there is only one film manufacturer which got into insolvency recently: InovisCoat. So the origin of Color Mission is clear.
Adox cannot make a competitive C41 film by themselves. We have to be realistic.
Details can be found in post #344. The info was provided by Giles Branthwaite, Sales & Marketing Director at Harman.
But what we actually do know so far from Harman (via interview on Nico's Photography Show) is that they have spent "millions" towards the production of undisclosed product(s), and that it's their largest such expenditure in decades. Perhaps it cannot be sold under the Ilford name, which could explain the existence of harmanphoto.co.uk.
Harman have gone to quite some considerable effort, and honestly the notion that this is a fake or hoax is conspiracy theory level. There's a digital "paper trail" leading right to the doors of head office at Mobberly.
Sorry, but I have watched the whole interview, and I have not heard such a statement of having "millions" invested in new products.
Maybe I missed that. So please give us the exact point in the interview with that statement, thanks.
Looking at the published balance sheets of Harman technology I also doubt their financial capability to invest "millions" (= several million Brit pounds) in a new product.
I think the section being referred to starts at 12:25 into the interview. In response to a question from the interviewer, the Ilford representative said that Ilford are 'investing multi-millions into new production capabilities'. Just before that they also mentioned that they are investing in new products that can't be disclosed at this time, but they didn't specifically say that those new products were getting millions of dollars of investment.
OK It would have done me a favour as you have contributed to this thread on numerous occasions and it is now a long thread stretching to 16 pages but can I make it simpler and ask you to respond to the question I asked as follows:
So can you say that none of what we have seen so far from allegedly Harman cannot possibly be from any other third party?
There may be a answer to the effect that it is impossible for a third party to have done what they have done unless they were in fact Harman. If so fine but I am curious as to what it may be As someone who admittedly isn't an expert in what is and isn't possible with expert computer skills I don't know. All I can go on is that there didn't look to be anything in what I saw being done that would be impossible for a third party to imitate
If you know of something that prevents an outside party from doing what has been dome then tell me in as simple terms as possible if you can what that was
pentaxuser
There is a new website set up by Harman, a direct mail campaign to industry insiders, a instagram page from Harman, a Facebook page from Harman and a twitter account from Harman. Certain photography experts have commented on it. What more do you want? If your looking for conspiratorial holes then I think you have too much time on your hands…
And again, three sensitized layers for “slow” film is possible.
Which companies in addition to the ones I mentioned managed to successfully manufacture C41 or E6 films? It's always possible I missed one out.
May I ask who has made a respectable C41 film with three layers? Adox Color Mission is a work in progress and has taken them several years to get where they are. If we are to believe that Harman took delivery of some equipment capable of coating colour film just this year, and have already managed to reach a point where they are ready to mass produce a colour film for general sale.....that's really quite some feat....a feat never before achieved in the history of photography. I know the guys at Harman are some of the best in the business....but that's pushing it.
You can "shoot" anything if your meaning is you're shooting a short video about the subject. The fact is, we don't know what Expired Film Club meant by shooting something exciting. I'd counter argue that Harman working on colour film in secret is also close to zero. Though not impossible.
Exactly. The level of “gimme gimme” impatience by some, on display in this thread is mind boggling. And mark my words, when the reveal does happen, those same people will loudly express their immense disappointment that Harman didn’t deliver their desired flavor of Big Magic. (and declaring the company a failure as a result) This was the response from some people when Ilford introduced Ortho Plus in roll formats!
Honestly. You’d think that a group of analog photographers understood (and valued) anticipation!
Please read the Adox announcement when they introduced this film: They honestly said that this film was not made by themselves, but by a film manufacturer which got into insolvency. They simply bought the coating run of that company which the producer could not distribute anymore because of their insolvency.
And there is only one film manufacturer which got into insolvency recently: InovisCoat. So the origin of Color Mission is clear.
Adox cannot make a competitive C41 film by themselves. We have to be realistic.
Actually tomorrow it will be a month since they updated their Facebook page with the black "Coming Soon" graphic. It's odd for sure, but only 37 people follow them there anyway so it hardly matters.It’s been almost three weeks.
There is a new website set up by Harman, a direct mail campaign to industry insiders, a instagram page from Harman, a Facebook page from Harman and a twitter account from Harman. Certain photography experts have commented on it. What more do you want? If your looking for conspiratorial holes then I think you have too much time on your hands…
... just what a stooge of the conspiracy would say, and I can tell you that as unfounded speculation.
Thanks, I've been aware of that part.
But I think here is a big misunderstanding: The factory in Mobberley is quite a big one (and also an older one), and you need regular significant investments just to keep it running: Repairing machines, installing new machinery when the old one is completely worn out, training of new, young engineers, cost reduction and energy saving investments, marketing.....and so on.
And Giles also said that they are preparing for general continued growth. So investments have to be made at bottleneck points to increase production in coming years.
So for me his statements are very clear that Harman is generally investing in the factory just to make it 'future-proof' and can handle hopefully continued demand growth.
He is not saying their investment is for a single 'magic' new product type.
I don't think any C41 film with 3 sensitized layers has been manufactured, ever, outside perhaps a lab setting.
A functional C41 film that has any chance in the market will have 9 sensitized color layers at least and at least a handful of auxiliary layers.
Give us the name of at least one C41 color film, in current production or defunct, that has just 3 sensitized layers.
The multilayer approach is not there so much for speed. It's mostly there for linearity. It's not possible to manufacture a decently linear C41 film that doesn't cross over like a mother f*** with just a single sensitized layer. It's possible with paper because its curve is enormously steep. But for a C41 film, this isn't usable since it won't be able to deal with even a modest SBR, let alone a typical sunny outdoor shot.
I'd be mightily impressed if Ilford managed to get to a competitive C41 color film from where they were a few years ago by investing just 'millions' and not 'tens of millions'. Not saying it isn't possible. But it's a gargantuan task under the conditions a business like theirs operates.
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