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Harman Photo cryptic announcement/teaser

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Details can be found in post #344. The info was provided by Giles Branthwaite, Sales & Marketing Director at Harman.
 

What be realistic and spoil all our fun!

pentaxuser
 
4season said:
Details can be found in post #344. The info was provided by Giles Branthwaite, Sales & Marketing Director at Harman.
Click to expand...

In that post there is only the link to the interview. And as I've written above, I've seen that whole interview.
But in the whole interview I have not found any statement concerning a "millions of pounds" investment in new, coming product(s).
 

That's interesting. Maybe it is colour film after all, if they're investing multi-millions into new production?
 
Agulliver said:
Harman have gone to quite some considerable effort, and honestly the notion that this is a fake or hoax is conspiracy theory level. There's a digital "paper trail" leading right to the doors of head office at Mobberly.
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Yes I admit that after at least 4 "government" vaccinations for Covid I am feeling more conspiratorial about everything . I think the whole vaccination programme may be a ruse for implanting a micro-chip into my brain but I admit I have no proof. However what I cannot work out is what the considerable effort that Harman has gone to. It or somebody has done 2 things, namely produce a picture of a Phoenix like bird and a statement " It is coming soon" It has then apparently chosen Nico and Analogue Wonderland to receive some "information" which of course neither can speak about until the announcement

As far as the information to 2 parties is concerned which must not be revealed until Harman is ready, doesn't it beg the question why tell more parties than it needs to when those parties can say no more than we have already been told? Once Harman is ready to make the announcement then I presume it will not rely on those 2 parties only to tell us. I'd presume that it will orchestrate the "fanfare" and then the 2 much smaller voices will hardly matter, will they ?


What does the digital paper trail consist of? A picture from a seemingly genuine Harman Photo So is none of that possible from a third party. People get fooled every day into clicking into "genuine" bank websites, don't they

So can you say that none of what we have seen so far from allegedly Harman cannot possibly be from any other third party?

If it is all genuinely Harman then it just seems so strange in terms of what we are used to seeing from Harman and seems to be no less strange when I compare it to the very recent normal behaviour from the Harman exec that Nico interviewed in the video posted at Photopia 2023

Thanks

pentaxuser
 
@pentaxuser I've explained the digital paper trail leading to Harman in Mobberly at least three times in the thread. I really don't feel that trotting out the exact same information a fourth time does anyone any favours
 

I think the section being referred to starts at 12:25 into the interview. In response to a question from the interviewer, the Ilford representative said that Ilford are 'investing multi-millions into new production capabilities'. Just before that they also mentioned that they are investing in new products that can't be disclosed at this time, but they didn't specifically say that those new products were getting millions of dollars of investment.
 

Thanks, I've been aware of that part.
But I think here is a big misunderstanding: The factory in Mobberley is quite a big one (and also an older one), and you need regular significant investments just to keep it running: Repairing machines, installing new machinery when the old one is completely worn out, training of new, young engineers, cost reduction and energy saving investments, marketing.....and so on.
And Giles also said that they are preparing for general continued growth. So investments have to be made at bottleneck points to increase production in coming years.
So for me his statements are very clear that Harman is generally investing in the factory just to make it 'future-proof' and can handle hopefully continued demand growth.
He is not saying their investment is for a single 'magic' new product type.
 
OK It would have done me a favour as you have contributed to this thread on numerous occasions and it is now a long thread stretching to 16 pages but can I make it simpler and ask you to respond to the question I asked as follows:

So can you say that none of what we have seen so far from allegedly Harman cannot possibly be from any other third party?

There may be a answer to the effect that it is impossible for a third party to have done what they have done unless they were in fact Harman. If so fine but I am curious as to what it may be As someone who admittedly isn't an expert in what is and isn't possible with expert computer skills I don't know. All I can go on is that there didn't look to be anything in what I saw being done that would be impossible for a third party to imitate

If you know of something that prevents an outside party from doing what has been dome then tell me in as simple terms as possible if you can what that was

pentaxuser
 

There is a new website set up by Harman, a direct mail campaign to industry insiders, a instagram page from Harman, a Facebook page from Harman and a twitter account from Harman. Certain photography experts have commented on it. What more do you want? If your looking for conspiratorial holes then I think you have too much time on your hands…
 

+Aleph nought
 
Helge said:
And again, three sensitized layers for “slow” film is possible.
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I don't think any C41 film with 3 sensitized layers has been manufactured, ever, outside perhaps a lab setting.
A functional C41 film that has any chance in the market will have 9 sensitized color layers at least and at least a handful of auxiliary layers.
Give us the name of at least one C41 color film, in current production or defunct, that has just 3 sensitized layers.

The multilayer approach is not there so much for speed. It's mostly there for linearity. It's not possible to manufacture a decently linear C41 film that doesn't cross over like a mother f*** with just a single sensitized layer. It's possible with paper because its curve is enormously steep. But for a C41 film, this isn't usable since it won't be able to deal with even a modest SBR, let alone a typical sunny outdoor shot.

I'd be mightily impressed if Ilford managed to get to a competitive C41 color film from where they were a few years ago by investing just 'millions' and not 'tens of millions'. Not saying it isn't possible. But it's a gargantuan task under the conditions a business like theirs operates.
 
The postcard and other unidentified objects has been sent to a number of dealers and influencers. One of whom was pictured AT HARMAN'S HQ in Mobberly.

But to me, The most important thing is that "Harman Phoenix" trademark was registered for Harman Technology Limited, Mobberly by an IPO that is one of the top trademark attorneys in the UK. The digital trail literally leads to Harman's office door.

So if someone has setup an elaborate ruse....they've not only fooled several retailers who have longstanding dealings with Harman, and influencers who have prior relationships with Harman, and somehow got one of said people to pose at Harman Mobberly without arousing the suspicions of him or of Harman......but they've also fooled the country's foremost trademark attorneys and the trademark office. And in doing so they've paid to have the postcards designed (graphic design doesn't come cheap) and printed, mailed out to the various people, a whole new website and web hosting, and at least three social media accounts.

What more do you want?

Frankly I don't like constantly repeating myself and I doubt any other posters here really appreciate me or anyone else making exactly the same points over and over again. Choose not to believe the available evidence or my posting of it if you so wish. Meanwhile, I am off to take some photos.
 
... just what a stooge of the conspiracy would say, and I can tell you that as unfounded speculation.
 

Orwo, Lucky, Polaroid, Efke, ERA, Forte, Fuda, Ilford (Super HR) all made colour negative film at one point or another. And I’m sure a few others.

Fuji 200 and 400 film has three main colour layers that are split into three sublayers for speed

A 100 or slower speed film would be able to make do with a mixed crystal emulsion leaning into mono disperse. It would be contrasty but sharp (like most slower film).
I’m not able to find data for films that layered like that right now, but I’m certain I’ve seen diagrams in literature.
 

It shows a bad sense of timing. Drawn out circus shows, for something that isn’t at least semi revolutionary displays little understanding of your audience.

It’s been almost three weeks.
Such a campaign should start two or three days before, at most a week.
Now people are just annoyed at the massive oversell.
 

As I understood it they specified the film and emulsion and had InovisCoat do the physical part. And Adox meanwhile acquired their own colour capable coating machines.
 
Helge said:
It’s been almost three weeks.
Click to expand...
Actually tomorrow it will be a month since they updated their Facebook page with the black "Coming Soon" graphic. It's odd for sure, but only 37 people follow them there anyway so it hardly matters.
 
It does seem like it's taking a very long time for this announcement to roll out. I feel like these things should go no longer than 2 weeks.

I hold out some hope it's cibachrome. Yeah it's not going to be super common to enlarge slide film OTOH, their other Harman product is direct pos B&W which is largely shot in camera. Cibachrome can also be shot in camera. In fact one of my favorite analog photographers does just that, to this day. (He must have a stockpile)


If we can put a man on the moon I presume we can reformulate some chemistry to be less toxic.

I put the likelyhood of this being the case at about 20% of course. Especially with the black on black materials they're handing out. OTOH the very high gloss Phoenix maybe is evocative of that unique cibachrome paper surface.

Unless it's Patterson Actutol what the heck else would 'rise from the ashes'? It's NOT going to be Kentmere or Ilford branded.
 

Yes but are all these things you mention a result of the Phoenix announcement in the last couple of weeks? Harman Technology has had a Facebook and Twitter account for a number of years surely

What more do I want? Well some specific evidence in relation to this specific Phoenix announcement might help. By the way a few others here are somewhat sceptical as well or so it seems to me but I suppose "too much time on your hands" could be levelled against any contributor to this thread or any other in every case that said contributor makes any points that anyone else does not agree with

pentaxuser
Dustin McAmera said:
... just what a stooge of the conspiracy would say, and I can tell you that as unfounded speculation.
Click to expand...



pentaxuser
 

I'm pretty sure they wouldn't bother with this mystery campaign + new web site for anything short of a significant new product. And if it were b&w film, paper or chemistry, they could sell it under the Ilford brand.
 

Sorry, didn’t refresh and hence didn’t see this till now.
Speed and linearity is not divorced with film.

I’m not about to go down a rabbit hole of an hours long search, that would no doubt be interesting. I’m just quite certain I saw a diagram and crossection of a C-41 film some years back, that had tree main layers.
It’s always possible that I might misremember or have misunderstood of course.

Edit. For what it’s worth, Popular photography Jan 89 has a test of Ektar 25 where it’s revealed to have five active layers. One tabular/cubic blue, hi/lo speed tabular green and hi/lo speed cubic red.
And that is a flagship film.
 
Last edited:
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Perhaps their big announcement is that they are buying the land and buildings that their production facilities are located in, rather than depending on renewals of their existing medium term (25 years????) lease.
 
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