Handholdability of medium format cameras

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Donald Qualls

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And secondly, not to be underestimated, the psychological and psychoacoustic (very visceral, instinctive behavior) anticipation and exertion of the pushing of the button, that also in its travel initiates the triggering of the mirror.
The little click of only a leaf shutter is a much more relaxed experience.

You're describing what firearm shooters call "flinch" -- a conditioned reflex reaction to the recoil and blast of a handgun or rifle. The solution for cameras is the same: first, know what to expect, so you can school yourself not to react. Second, "dry fire practice" -- for guns, pulling the trigger without a round loaded, to train yourself to hold everything steady as the trigger breaks (the analogy to a camera is obvious). With guns, there's a third, "random dry fire" -- this requires a partner, who will hand you the gun, prepared out of your sight, with either a live round or empty chamber.

All of these types of practice revolve around detecting that you're moving (the camera, in this case), "flinching," at or immediately after the trigger break, due to anticipation of the recoil and blast, or the mirror slap of a large SLR, and random dry fire is specifically about aggressive detection and training out the flinch. To simulate this with a camera (doesn't even need film loaded in most), you'd do the same thing: use some method to cover the sound of advancing or cocking the body, and a partner hands over the camera either cocked or locked (with some cameras, there might be some faffing around -- for instance, SLRs without instant mirror return).

Of course, another training method for reducing or eliminating flinch is using a gun with much milder recoil and report -- say, a .22 in place of a .45. For the camera world, that would involve training with a TLR/bright-finder, RF, or scale focus camera in the same general form factor as the primary one you're trying to train for. Perhaps a box camera with a couple pounds of lead taped on? No mirror slap, a quiet shutter, but you could make a Shur-Shot Jr. or Box Brownie feel more or less like an RB67 (though you can't simulate the huge ground glass viewfinder). Perhaps a 2x3 Speed, Crown, or Century (built to be hand held, and worth having in its own right).

In the end, the only solution to a conditioned reflex with an undesired outcome is to retrain the relevant reflex. You can learn to hand hold at slower speeds, and much of it is simply believing that you can. I've hand held 35mm SLRs and viewfinder cameras down to 1/15 on many occasions, a 4x5 Speed Graphic (using the focal plane shutter!) down to 1/20, and many TLR and folders to 1/25 on many occasions. As noted above, I've also hand held (with a good strap) my RB67 down to 1/50, at least (don't recall if I've gone slower).
 

Helge

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Sure you can do it. But there is luck involved too.
Depending on whether you release the shutter at just the right moment between heartbeats and breaths.
Tightening up the body or relaxing will not help.
Often it will make things worse.

What I’m talking about is as hard to control consciously as heartbeat and shivers when tickled.
IE you have to be an Indian guru dedicating your life to it.
A camera is in some ways even more critical than a gun, where whether you hit one millimeter to the left or right doesn’t matter.
A millimeter movement over the target with a 250mm Hasselblad lens is quite a lot of blur.
 

guangong

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My first reply regarding Fuji GF670 was made while away from my cameras. Now able to refresh how I hold camera. Basically the same as with any other camera. Right hand hold camera so as to press shutter and advance film. There is sufficient mass in focusing, aperture ring, and lens assembly that while fingers are wrapped around face of folding door, the lens section can rest in hand while thumb adjusts shutter speed and f stop. So camera mostly rests in left palm. Wrapping strap around right hand helps. Easy to avoid touching bellows. Holding camera steady is a little more difficult because the mass we associate with such a long lens, such as with a Hassy, is not there. Still, a great easy to use camera when MF desired when traveling light. For steadiness nothing beats a Rollei 2.8F.
 

guangong

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As for holding camera and tripping a shutter. Like using a gun, can’t muscle either one and hit the target. Nor a musical instrument.
 

Donald Qualls

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Sure you can do it. But there is luck involved too.
Depending on whether you release the shutter at just the right moment between heartbeats and breaths.
Tightening up the body or relaxing will not help.
Often it will make things worse.

What I’m talking about is as hard to control consciously as heartbeat and shivers when tickled.
IE you have to be an Indian guru dedicating your life to it.
A camera is in some ways even more critical than a gun, where whether you hit one millimeter to the left or right doesn’t matter.
A millimeter movement over the target with a 250mm Hasselblad lens is quite a lot of blur.

Snipers train to do just that: break the trigger, not just at a particular point in the breathing cycle, but literally between heartbeats. And they're aiming at targets far enough away that their accuracy is far more critical than that of a 'Blad with 250mm mounted. For a sniper, half a mile is routine shooting, and they're expected to be able to hit a target the size of a pie plate at that distance, better than 9 shots in 10 ("One shot, one kill" is their motto). While compensating wind, temperature (affects powder reactivity, hence bullet velocity), rifling drift (the spin on the bullet makes it move to one side as it falls due to gravity), and anticipating possible target movement. You may rest assured that sniper-level accuracy completely blows away anything a Hasselblad user is likely to need.

My point, however, was about flinch: train out flinch, and you've removed the biggest factor that would cause you to limit yourself to shutter speed of 2x focal length. There isn't much luck involved when I hold my 35mm SLR or Kiev 4 down to 1/15 or even slower -- it's a matter of technique, knowing my limits, and being willing to shoot a second frame as insurance, knowing it's likely to work only every second or third try when I'm that slow -- but I can do half the focal length with any 35mm, routinely, better than 9 times in 10. It's a little harder with a heavier camera, because there's more tension on the muscles (= more tremor), but if the grip is good and the body position is conducive, the camera weight (= inertia) can actually help, too.
 

Steve Goldstein

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Others have mentioned the Mamiya 7. I've had frequent success hand-holding at 1/15th, and occasionally 1/8th, with the 80mm and shorter lenses. The 150mm is more difficult, and I find 1/15th a real stretch with that lens though 1/30th is OK. I usually expose two or three frames as insurance when the light requires such low speeds.

One thing that helps me a lot is that I've been involved in target shooting for quite a long time. I'm not sniper-trained as Donald discussed, but I know how to still my mind (keeping the mind quiet is very helpful), stabilize my body, and move my shutter finger in isolation. It can be learned, and it's not hard. And I always work to optimize my body position and the way I'm holding the camera to give the least movement.
 

Helge

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Snipers train to do just that: break the trigger, not just at a particular point in the breathing cycle, but literally between heartbeats. And they're aiming at targets far enough away that their accuracy is far more critical than that of a 'Blad with 250mm mounted. For a sniper, half a mile is routine shooting, and they're expected to be able to hit a target the size of a pie plate at that distance, better than 9 shots in 10 ("One shot, one kill" is their motto). While compensating wind, temperature (affects powder reactivity, hence bullet velocity), rifling drift (the spin on the bullet makes it move to one side as it falls due to gravity), and anticipating possible target movement. You may rest assured that sniper-level accuracy completely blows away anything a Hasselblad user is likely to need.

My point, however, was about flinch: train out flinch, and you've removed the biggest factor that would cause you to limit yourself to shutter speed of 2x focal length. There isn't much luck involved when I hold my 35mm SLR or Kiev 4 down to 1/15 or even slower -- it's a matter of technique, knowing my limits, and being willing to shoot a second frame as insurance, knowing it's likely to work only every second or third try when I'm that slow -- but I can do half the focal length with any 35mm, routinely, better than 9 times in 10. It's a little harder with a heavier camera, because there's more tension on the muscles (= more tremor), but if the grip is good and the body position is conducive, the camera weight (= inertia) can actually help, too.
Sure snipers and Indian gurus might have something in common. But on your feet, out and about, unless you’re birdwatching from a hunters nest, it will be hard to reach the right kind of zen, to pull off 1/15th with a 250.
 

Helge

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Others have mentioned the Mamiya 7. I've had frequent success hand-holding at 1/15th, and occasionally 1/8th, with the 80mm and shorter lenses. The 150mm is more difficult, and I find 1/15th a real stretch with that lens though 1/30th is OK. I usually expose two or three frames as insurance when the light requires such low speeds.

One thing that helps me a lot is that I've been involved in target shooting for quite a long time. I'm not sniper-trained as Donald discussed, but I know how to still my mind (keeping the mind quiet is very helpful), stabilize my body, and move my shutter finger in isolation. It can be learned, and it's not hard. And I always work to optimize my body position and the way I'm holding the camera to give the least movement.

One thing is your own movement when shooting at those speeds.
Another is the subjects movement.
Unless you’re shooting still life (in which case you have little excuse for not at least bracing your camera on something.
You have to time the pressing of the shutter button quite well, that you don’t catch them turning their head quickly or moving an arm.
That’s a lot to keep in check on top of keeping still yourself.
1/30th is not enough to freeze limp movement.

My point being that finding ways to brace yourself is always a good idea at these speeds.
Let’s you concentrate on what really matters.

I find that micro-tripods, that are super fast to adjust, and can be pressed against or put on anything from your own chest (don’t knock it till you try it) to windows, furniture and walls, is one of the best ways to take the uncertainty out of medium format shooting.
Even with 645 format you only have 16 shots. Wasting half of those on shaky duds, is a bit too much.
 
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Philippe-Georges

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I am a Hasselblad person sinds 1981.
Compared to my digital 'thing' (a X-Pro2) I can hold the Hasselblad camera much more stable than the Fuji which, BTW, is made for shooting concealed/handholding in ambient light.
The weight and mass seems to be important, only the mirror slap could be troubling, but then I would use the SWC.
But, when I was shooting the D800, which was on certain occasions heavier than the Hasselblad (zoomlenses), sharpness handholding wasn't always evident...
I think there is more at stake than weight and bulk, the concept of the tool as a whole is at least as important...

500 CM 2.JPG
 

Sirius Glass

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I can shoot my Hasselblad 501c handheld at 1/60 and even at 1/30 and get remarkable results. With the 250mm lens I can get away with you handheld.

There is no way for me to handhold the 500mm lens with the Hasselblad so a tripod is necessary for that lens. Even more so for that lens with the 2X extender.
 

Helge

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There is no way for me to handhold the 500mm lens with the Hasselblad so a tripod is necessary for that lens. Even more so for that lens with the 2X extender.
Well, at least you’re not humblebragging.
 

redrockcoulee

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There's one medium format camera I would definitely say is difficult to hand-hold: a Fuji GX680. That thing is a beast- all the burdens of a 4x5 without all the benefits. Yes, it offers a little bit of movement, but only on the front standard. And it's heavier than many 4x5's, without the square inches of film.

I was wondering if anyone was going to bring up that beast.

One advantage of it over 4X5 , for me anyways, is that I can scan the negs on my Cool scan 8000 and I have no flatbed scanner (yet) for LF.
 

GLS

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I own a 501CM and a Pentax 6x7, and have no problem hand holding either one. Stance, arm position, how you hold the camera, controlled breathing and squeezing (not jabbing) the shutter all play a part.
 

Sirius Glass

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I was wondering if anyone was going to bring up that beast.

One advantage of it over 4X5 , for me anyways, is that I can scan the negs on my Cool scan 8000 and I have no flatbed scanner (yet) for LF.

As I age, I am finding that I am not using 4"x5" hand holdable cameras as much. The 4"x5" cameras were bought specifically because they were designed to hand holding use Graflex Model D and Speed Graphic.
 

ic-racer

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I started using a tripod more after I got an 8x loupe to examine negatives on the light table :smile:
 
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trick

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+1 on the breathing techniques and slowly squeezing the "trigger" instead of jabbing at it. This has always helped me with all handheld shooting, no matter the camera. I've also use my body to stabilize heavier cameras, both when shooting photos and on video work. Finding a way to brace the camera against your torso really helps, but perhaps not with your Fuji GF670 (which I've always wanted btw.)

I've had a lot of success shooting my Mamiya 7ii handheld and honestly can't recommend that camera enough. It's definitely expensive (even more so in the US than in Europe, where I got mine) but I can carry it around all day on a sling very comfortably and it's a pleasure to shoot.
 

Philippe-Georges

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There is no way for me to handhold the 500mm lens with the Hasselblad so a tripod is necessary for that lens. Even more so for that lens with the 2X extender.

When I was (a lot) younger, in the early 1980's, I was working for a nature preservation organisation and had to photograph (not to "shoot") a couple of herons nesting near a pond. The goal was to picture them when they were turning the eggs. They do that sometimes, and together, with their wings spread wide open. A wonderful sight!
So I was waiting under a camouflage net, across the pond, with the 500C/M and a 500 mm (loaded with Fujicolour 800 ASA) hand held, which I couldn't hold anymore after about 2 hours. So I had to get a tripod which made me almost miss the show!
Knowing I really don't like tripods, I never did, this was a Calvary for me.

I couldn't work with the Leica M4-2 and a Telyt 280mm mounted on a Visoflex, the Visoflex was far to slow for that kind of work, slower than the Hasselblad, and heavy too.

Yes, Sirius, that Hasselblad combo is as heavy as a sledgehammer...
 

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The question is just too broad to me. MF covers so many different camera styles, designs, inherent heft in some not so much in others, purpose it is generally used for and all of that related to capabilities ... end result answers like TLRs are great, RB67 not so much. If Graflex 4x5 SLR was & is capable of handheld pictures, is there one that is not? It's all about purpose, applicability and willingness to compromise. Any single one in MF and in fact beyond can be handheld in at least some circumstances.
 
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polka

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Instead of "hand held", with WLF cameras, shouldn't we say "belly held" ?
POLKa
 

DREW WILEY

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I'm extremely skeptical just how many handheld MF shots are truly sharp in the sense of being able to withstand any serious degree of enlargement. My Fuji 6x9 RF's with 90mm lens hand-holds even better than my Nikon; but anything below 1/125th, say 1/60th, is only about a 50% success rate. If I were younger, I might get away with one speed slower. With my P67, the 105 lens is the longest I can work with handheld, and need 1/250 or preferably 1/500th - fine for aerial photo purposes, but no substitute for a real tripod on land. Posting web images doesn't generally prove anything in this respect - a smashed bug on a windshield would look just as sharp on that small of a scale. Sometimes I get lucky and pull off a decent 6x9 RF exposure at 1/30th. But anything below 1/60th with the P67 is going to get affected by mirror slap. I have gotten away with even 300 tele shots with the 6x7 just by rolling up a jacket atop a car roof or fence post, and supporting the lens that way.
 

GRHazelton

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Any comments on the Bronica S2a? While its mass - closing in on FIVE lbs - would help, the incredible noise of the exposure would have to be a problem as far as inticipatory flinching. I have one, I've used it only slightly since it needed the infinity focus problem corrected. That fixed, I'm off to the races. I also have a Pentax 645n, it is easy to hand hold, and according to Luminous Landscapes the lack of mirror lockup makes no difference with long tele shots.
 

wiltw

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I have always found a Bronica ETRSi with prism finder and Speed Grip to be every bit as manageable as a 135 format SLR...I that comes from someone whose 135 system is based upon the Olympus OM!
 
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