Handholdability of medium format cameras

[Helge]

I love my folding cameras. I can hand-hold my Mess-Baldix 6x6 and non-Mess-Baldix 6x6 down to 1/50 sec if I brace myself although I don't really like hand-holding below 1/100 sec. I automatically find myself looking for a handy wall, tree or drainpipe or other street furniture to use with the fold-down stand on the baseboard!

I have a 1938 Zeiss-Ikon Nettar 515/2 6x9 with a Compur shutter and I thought hand-holding it at 1/250 would be a breeze. Nooooo! The shutter spring is that powerful at 1/250 that I reckon it must cause the camera to jump. Sometimes I get away with it, others not. My 1950 Agfa Billy 1 is much smoother to hand-hold at 1/200 sec. Never tried at the next-speed down (1/50 sec). Maybe...

My Yashica D TLR is easy to hand-hold down to 1/30 as it has a nice sensitive shutter button and it's easy to grip. Not as handy or pocketable as my folders, though.

One trick you might have missed is that it is possible to flash sync at all speeds with these.
It’s possible to get very good flash fill and freeze action within 1-5 meters at 250/500 @ f8 in daylight, and still have some ambient light.

 

[russell_w_b]

One trick you might have missed is that it is possible to flash sync at all speeds with these.
It’s possible to get very good flash fill and freeze action within 1-5 meters at 250/500 @ f8 in daylight, and still have some ambient light.

I've used flash with them but only for 'flash' photos, as it were; not fill-in. Good idea though! Apart from the Zeiss, which doesn't have a flash socket. I sometimes carry a small stepped block of wood to act as a wedge / support if I can find a suitable anchor. Or a mini-tripod and cable-release, when I remember...

 

[Sirius Glass]

Bronica S2 (and S2a, basically the same) is what I use mostly by now. With very short days this time of the year or even by midday but with very dark skies I find myself more and more in very low light situation and have been shoting as low as 1/8 without problem, with the 75mm and 50mm lenses. I use a prism. Ergonomics of the body is excellent but it depends own hands size. Mostly the compacity of the mass distribution thanks the recessed lens design helps stability. That’s where the flap down mirror design is superior.
That said to shot at 1/8 requires a bit of discipline in breath control

Have you considered faster film or perhaps a tripod?

 

[xya]

And years before that, the Mamiya 6 -- 6x6 folder, earlier versions had 6x4.5 mask that was captive inside, coupled RF and focus by moving the film plane. Last version had a frame counter, but gave up the 6x4.5 capability (making a counter that does both was probably the issue, though Ensign apparently did it on their Commando in the late 1940s).

obviously you missed the version V that had a counter for 12 and 16 frames. I had one. it's here http://www.120folder.com/mamiya_six.htm further down the page...

 

[Donald Qualls]

@xya Honestly, I bought what I could find in good (seeming) condition and afford. I'd guess the V is at least as rare as the Automat, since the latter gets mention several places, but the V less so.

 

[xya]

@xya Honestly, I bought what I could find in good (seeming) condition and afford. I'd guess the V is at least as rare as the Automat, since the latter gets mention several places, but the V less so.

I think that the V is just overlooked. I bought mine for next to nothing because it needed a CLA. CLA done it was still cheap. just look out for it. you will have to scan hundreds of mamiya 6 offers, but it will show up. most likely in japan. good luck!

 

[Donald Qualls]

If I like the one already on the way, I very well might. I like frame counters in folders -- cuts down on having to look a the camera instead of the subject/scene. I can cock a shutter by feel, but I don't trust advancing film in a red window without looking (that scene in Roger Rabbit where Eddie Valiant takes seven or eight rapid shots with a full-frame 116 folder, through a window into a lamplit room, of Jessica playing patty-cake with R.K. Maroon was less believable than the 'toons).

 

[xya]

If I like the one already on the way, I very well might. I like frame counters in folders -- cuts down on having to look a the camera instead of the subject/scene. I can cock a shutter by feel, but I don't trust advancing film in a red window without looking (that scene in Roger Rabbit where Eddie Valiant takes seven or eight rapid shots with a full-frame 116 folder, through a window into a lamplit room, of Jessica playing patty-cake with R.K. Maroon was less believable than the 'toons).

I remember that one with delight. you are in a better position than me. you can look into a red window and see something. I can't anymore. until 2 or 3 years ago I was able to see the numbers without a problem. since then either my view has detiriorated or the film numbers of certain films have faded. anyway, my preferred films, ilford and fomapan, do not work for me any longer. kodak is still OK. So I sold all of my red window advance cameras recently. the bessa RF heliar and the agfa record III solinar were the hardest to let go...

but frame counters are my salvation.

 

[Donald Qualls]

I find current Fomapan (in the form of Arista .EDU Ultra) pretty easy to see through the red window. It's Ilford I have trouble with, but if I get a good strong light on the window, I can manage. It's probably not your vision, anyway -- one of the changes made to fight wrapper offset (now that there's only one backing paper supplier) has been to minimize the amount of ink on the part of the backing that contacts the emulsion...

 

[russell_w_b]

'I find current Fomapan (in the form of Arista .EDU Ultra) pretty easy to see through the red window.' .

Likewise, which is why I tend to use Foma in my counter-less Balda Baldix. My Mess-Baldix has a counter and you only need the red window once. I have noticed, though, that the numbering position on Kodak and Ilford 120 film is bolder and easier to see through the red windows of 6x9 folders than it is on 6x6 folders.

 

[removedacct2]

Have you considered faster film or perhaps a tripod?

of course when one plans beforehand to take pictures at some place and some time, adequate iso and optional tripod. But I often have a camera with me in the bag or in the car, and shot impromptu here and there without any planning.

all the pictures here were taken with hand held Bronica S2.

this september when border was open one afternoon I drove to nearby Värmland for some shopping, I had plenty of time it was a nice sunny day and I decided to wander around in the beautiful countryside, I had rolls of Retropan-320 and Lomography-400 in the car. At some moment I recalled the car cemetery at Båstnäs and drove there. This was not planned. As said it was a sunny day but the cars are under the shade of the trees.
a shot outside the forest, at 1/1000s with the Lomography 400:

but then inside the cemetery, this I had to shot at 1/8 s:

or this, at 1/15s:

of course the alternative was to push the film one or two stops, but then I try not to with Lomography-400 (avoid colour shifts). And this shots have got some bit of luminosity in the post-scanning negative to positive conversion, in fact it was somewhat dim under the trees.


other common occurrences with me, I am in the city for some errands, camera in the bag as usual. It's afternoon but by now mid-november, dark around 15:30, which is early, still I'd like to take some pictures...
Here, Retropan-320 was all I had in the bag, my ligthmeter was telling I had to push to iso 2500 (!) and yet use slow speeds. I didn't dare to push to 3200, and the manufacturer of the film has instructions for development at 320 or 640 only. So I had to enter unknown territory. I somehow estimated a dev time by diverse interpolations based on other emulsions, with Atomal-49, and got usable positives (scanned).

this at 1/15s:

couple other shots handheld with the Bronica S2, here at 1/8s, and the first one has in fact some softness, I breathed at the wrong moment when taking the shot . Tri-X 400 film, sun is set but still casting enough light:

I really like the ergonomics of the Bronica, and the shutter button, the mirror flips down to the bottom which I believe causes less vibration and the weight of the body+back with regular lens and a prism is around 2,2/2,3 kg which provides some mass inertia absorbing some vibration. At least that's how I explain the ease of use at low speeds.
The opposite, a Moskva-5 is so light and the shutter button is on the top, that I always fear some slightly move of my hands.

 

[Donald Qualls]

The opposite, a Moskva-5 is so light and the shutter button is on the top, that I always fear some slightly move of my hands.

I recall this is why I traded away my Moskva 5 -- couldn't shoot at reasonable speeds (even 1/60) without camera movement.

 

[Sirius Glass]

of course when one plans beforehand to take pictures at some place and some time, adequate iso and optional tripod. But I often have a camera with me in the bag or in the car, and shot impromptu here and there without any planning.

all the pictures here were taken with hand held Bronica S2.

this september when border was open one afternoon I drove to nearby Värmland for some shopping, I had plenty of time it was a nice sunny day and I decided to wander around in the beautiful countryside, I had rolls of Retropan-320 and Lomography-400 in the car. At some moment I recalled the car cemetery at Båstnäs and drove there. This was not planned. As said it was a sunny day but the cars are under the shade of the trees.
a shot outside the forest, at 1/1000s with the Lomography 400:

View attachment 259826

but then inside the cemetery, this I had to shot at 1/8 s:

View attachment 259827

or this, at 1/15s:

View attachment 259828

of course the alternative was to push the film one or two stops, but then I try not to with Lomography-400 (avoid colour shifts). And this shots have got some bit of luminosity in the post-scanning negative to positive conversion, in fact it was somewhat dim under the trees.


other common occurrences with me, I am in the city for some errands, camera in the bag as usual. It's afternoon but by now mid-november, dark around 15:30, which is early, still I'd like to take some pictures...
Here, Retropan-320 was all I had in the bag, my ligthmeter was telling I had to push to iso 2500 (!) and yet use slow speeds. I didn't dare to push to 3200, and the manufacturer of the film has instructions for development at 320 or 640 only. So I had to enter unknown territory. I somehow estimated a dev time by diverse interpolations based on other emulsions, with Atomal-49, and got usable positives (scanned).

this at 1/15s:

View attachment 259834





couple other shots handheld with the Bronica S2, here at 1/8s, and the first one has in fact some softness, I breathed at the wrong moment when taking the shot . Tri-X 400 film, sun is set but still casting enough light:

View attachment 259831

View attachment 259833




I really like the ergonomics of the Bronica, and the shutter button, the mirror flips down to the bottom which I believe causes less vibration and the weight of the body+back with regular lens and a prism is around 2,2/2,3 kg which provides some mass inertia absorbing some vibration. At least that's how I explain the ease of use at low speeds.
The opposite, a Moskva-5 is so light and the shutter button is on the top, that I always fear some slightly move of my hands.

OR store the tripod in the car.