Green tones on shadows and blacks

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Unai López

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Hi, i've been shooting film for a year now with different type of films and cameras. Every time that i photograph any low light scenario reguarding camera and film it gives this kind of green tone all over the shadows and blacks. I always send the rolls to my local lab where there are developed and scanned.
Does anybody knows why it happens and how can i avoid it?
Thanks
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glbeas

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Your meter is being overpowered by the light of the sky and therefor underesposing the film. Meter the ground and either hold the reading for the shot or set it manually to get a better exposure. You will want to experiment a bit to find the most pleasing results.
 

pentaxuser

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glbeas, can you say why underexposure created by the predominance of sky should produce a green look to the shadows? If the taker of such a scene wants the shadows to be like a silhouette as in the buildings in the first picture how does he go about that without the result of the green shadows?Thanks

pentaxuser
 

alentine

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my local lab where there are developed and scanned.
Initially, it's either scanning problem that could be corrected for in your photoshop, or it's temperature/under development result.
 

ced

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What about a lousy film/s?
Easy in PS to fix.
 
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Unai López

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Your meter is being overpowered by the light of the sky and therefor underesposing the film. Meter the ground and either hold the reading for the shot or set it manually to get a better exposure. You will want to experiment a bit to find the most pleasing results.
I'll try on the next few rolls and i'll post the results
Thanks
 
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Unai López

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Initially, it's either scanning problem that could be corrected for in your photoshop, or it's temperature/under development result.
I've tried it and it gives a overpowered magenta looks and to much noise on the blacks to show a pleasent image
 

RPC

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The OP is new here and may not know this should have been posted as a hybrid thread.
 
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Unai López

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glbeas, can you say why underexposure created by the predominance of sky should produce a green look to the shadows? If the taker of such a scene wants the shadows to be like a silhouette as in the buildings in the first picture how does he go about that without the result of the green shadows?Thanks

pentaxuser
It would be nice to take silhouette pics without the green tint. Do you have any tip or advice?
 

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Merciful wishes for the new guy, but just hoping nobody tries to rip him a new one.

By the way, welcome Unai Lopez in Bilboa, we all hope you enjoy our little group.
 

glbeas

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The green look usually comes about from having to “ underxpose” the scan to get the midtones and highlights to show up. Throws the color balance off. It can show as other colors or grey but the gren cast is pretty common with underexposed film for whatever reason.
 
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Unai López

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The green look usually comes about from having to “ underxpose” the scan to get the midtones and highlights to show up. Throws the color balance off. It can show as other colors or grey but the gren cast is pretty common with underexposed film for whatever reason.
So the problem is that i'm mettering for the highlights and that cost me underexposing and at the same time underexposing the film causes that green color right?
 

pentaxuser

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The problem here is that so far we seem to be having difficulty in helping the OP with how he gets to the real cause of the green in his positive picture of his negative. Is it a scanning issue or is it an in-camera underexposure issue that causes the green effect? All I can say is that until now I have never seen this green effect before in negatives where a lot of the scene is underexposed. If this is a direct result of underexposure then this would mean that underexposure in scenes caused by the predominance of a light area such as sky will always cause a green effect in the positive so a picture of a person against the sky will always cause that person to be green because the negative is now permanently the wrong negative colour and in effect there is no cure in a darkroom RA4 print process?

I find this difficult to believe. So is it solely a scanning problem or is it the negative. If the negative is fine i.e. an RA4 print of it would result in the buildings simply being dark as I would expect then it becomes a hybrid issue, doesn't it?

So, OP, here's my suggestion: Can you take a photo of the 2 negatives so we may look at them and decide if it is a film processing problem or a scanning problem.

We can then take things from there.

On the broader issue of the question of does this belong in the hybrid section, we seem, based on a number of recent threads to be like Janus, in that we face both ways. Do we move this to hybrid once we know, it is not a negative issue or should the policy be that because initially it is unclear if it is a negative processing issue then analogue is the right place to start and then we continue to give scanning advice in this section of Photrio because to move it just complicates matter for both the OP and those who are already here and can give the appropriate scanning advice?

pentaxuser
 
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Unai López

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The problem here is that so far we seem to be having difficulty in helping the OP with how he gets to the real cause of the green in his positive picture of his negative. Is it a scanning issue or is it an in-camera underexposure issue that causes the green effect? All I can say is that until now I have never seen this green effect before in negatives where a lot of the scene is underexposed. If this is a direct result of underexposure then this would mean that underexposure in scenes caused by the predominance of a light area such as sky will always cause a green effect in the positive so a picture of a person against the sky will always cause that person to be green because the negative is now permanently the wrong negative colour and in effect there is no cure in a darkroom RA4 print process?

I find this difficult to believe. So is it solely a scanning problem or is it the negative. If the negative is fine i.e. an RA4 print of it would result in the buildings simply being dark as I would expect then it becomes a hybrid issue, doesn't it?

So, OP, here's my suggestion: Can you take a photo of the 2 negatives so we may look at them and decide if it is a film processing problem or a scanning problem.

We can then take things from there.

On the broader issue of the question of does this belong in the hybrid section, we seem, based on a number of recent threads to be like Janus, in that we face both ways. Do we move this to hybrid once we know, it is not a negative issue or should the policy be that because initially it is unclear if it is a negative processing issue then analogue is the right place to start and then we continue to give scanning advice in this section of Photrio because to move it just complicates matter for both the OP and those who are already here and can give the appropriate scanning advice?

pentaxuser
Sure i'll take a photo to the negatives. I'll make them tomorrow morning (spanish hour) and post them here again.
 

glbeas

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Serious underexposure. Be aware of your meters shortcomings, a basic meter is pretty dumb and will only set it to the predominant values and try to set it for a midpoint grey. Read up some on the zone system to understand the concepts of correcting the metering for the scene you want to record.
Your film has a pretty good dynamic range and will record detail way in to the over exposed range, but underexposure just loses information and cant really be recovered.
 
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Unai López

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Serious underexposure. Be aware of your meters shortcomings, a basic meter is pretty dumb and will only set it to the predominant values and try to set it for a midpoint grey. Read up some on the zone system to understand the concepts of correcting the metering for the scene you want to record.
Your film has a pretty good dynamic range and will record detail way in to the over exposed range, but underexposure just loses information and cant really be recovered.
Isn't the zone system for black and white?
Do i need to expose for the shadows to have details on the highlight too?
 

MattKing

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If you look at your negatives you will see that they are almost blank in the areas that correspond to the dark and green parts of your prints.
Blank parts of negatives mean that not enough light got to them to allow the detail you like to be recorded there. In other words, they were under-exposed.
The under-exposure most likely resulted from your camera meter reading the sky instead of reading mostly the ground with a little bit of sky mixed in. Shots with a lot of sky often end up fooling meters, unless you watch for that.
With respect to the negatives you have, a custom print, properly done by a skilled individual would most likely show very dark and detail free shadows in those almost clear areas. The lighter areas in the scene would be lighter than that, but still disappointingly not bright.
The custom print would get the colour closer to right though.
Your prints, and the scans that they were most likely made from, reflect the fact that they were almost certainly made using automatic machines. When those machines encounter a severely under-exposed negative, they struggle mightily to extract as much from it as they can find, even if there isn't much there to extract.
Those automatic, best they can do efforts usually result in something pale and discoloured.
If you give the film more exposure, the automatic systems in the scanners and printers have something to work with, and usually do a better job.
Welcome to Photrio. Hope this is some help.
 

RPC

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On the broader issue of the question of does this belong in the hybrid section, we seem, based on a number of recent threads to be like Janus, in that we face both ways. Do we move this to hybrid once we know, it is not a negative issue or should the policy be that because initially it is unclear if it is a negative processing issue then analogue is the right place to start and then we continue to give scanning advice in this section of Photrio because to move it just complicates matter for both the OP and those who are already here and can give the appropriate scanning advice?

pentaxuser

When one shoots film and scans it, and has a problem, and doesn't know what the cause is, that to me says hybrid. On the other hand if the poster has good reason to rule out the scan and believes it to be the film, then analog is appropriate.

The moderators can decide what to do if a thread is clearly in the wrong place, but in this thread the new member was made aware and that's what really matters.
 
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Unai López

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If you look at your negatives you will see that they are almost blank in the areas that correspond to the dark and green parts of your prints.
Blank parts of negatives mean that not enough light got to them to allow the detail you like to be recorded there. In other words, they were under-exposed.
The under-exposure most likely resulted from your camera meter reading the sky instead of reading mostly the ground with a little bit of sky mixed in. Shots with a lot of sky often end up fooling meters, unless you watch for that.
With respect to the negatives you have, a custom print, properly done by a skilled individual would most likely show very dark and detail free shadows in those almost clear areas. The lighter areas in the scene would be lighter than that, but still disappointingly not bright.
The custom print would get the colour closer to right though.
Your prints, and the scans that they were most likely made from, reflect the fact that they were almost certainly made using automatic machines. When those machines encounter a severely under-exposed negative, they struggle mightily to extract as much from it as they can find, even if there isn't much there to extract.
Those automatic, best they can do efforts usually result in something pale and discoloured.
If you give the film more exposure, the automatic systems in the scanners and printers have something to work with, and usually do a better job.
Welcome to Photrio. Hope this is some help.
Yes they scan it on automatic machines but soon i'll try to scan them myself and see if i can have a better results
 
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