Grafmatics and Septums

[urnem57]

I’ve made that mistake too.

 

[Donald Qualls]

The symptom of that miss, is that only 5 septums will fit under the darkslide. Because the lever is the size of one septum.
I forget its main purpose but probably to make it so the top septum sits above the darkslide for exposure.

That push tab controls whether you see the red dot on the back of the Grafmatic (tells you there's film uncovered for exposure, or not). Cycle the dark slide to bring a loaded septum forward, and there's room for the tab behind the remaining stack; the movements and mechanism push it into place to hold the stack forward, ready for the freshly exposed septum/film to be pushed to the back by the springs when the entire magazine box is pulled, and the exposed film to be inserted in the back of the stack. When the exposed unit is restacked, the tab is pushed against its spring, covering the red dot and indicating "safe to remove".

After cycling this with film a couple times last night, my figurative hat is off who whoever designed this thing. That's one compact, efficient device for stacking/sorting thin flat plates, and the fact that they often still work after sixty to eighty years (often decades of that time in daily use) is a tribute both to the design and to the quality of manufacture.

 

[urnem57]

That push tab controls whether you see the red dot on the back of the Grafmatic (tells you there's film uncovered for exposure, or not). Cycle the dark slide to bring a loaded septum forward, and there's room for the tab behind the remaining stack; the movements and mechanism push it into place to hold the stack forward, ready for the freshly exposed septum/film to be pushed to the back by the springs when the entire magazine box is pulled, and the exposed film to be inserted in the back of the stack. When the exposed unit is restacked, the tab is pushed against its spring, covering the red dot and indicating "safe to remove".

After cycling this with film a couple times last night, my figurative hat is off who whoever designed this thing. That's one compact, efficient device for stacking/sorting thin flat plates, and the fact that they often still work after sixty to eighty years (often decades of that time in daily use) is a tribute both to the design and to the quality of manufacture.

No doubt. With a little TLC they can continue doing what they do for a long time.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

Couple tips for you and anyone else wanting to use a Grafmatic.

Check that the film is firmly in the septum. If not, pinch the far end of the side channel (not the end channel) until it grabs the film firmly. If a sheet slips out it is a PITA and will ruin your day.

When you cycle through put the darkslide back in before you take your exposure. The darkslide holds the septum flat and blocks extraneous light. I've seen people treat the darkslide like a regular film holder dangling out. No bueno.

Hold the Grafmatic when you are cycling it on the camera. It is possible to pull it right out on most spring backs and that will ruin your day. If you have a Graflok back, use it instead. It will hold the Grafmatic far more securely.

I took pliers to all my Grafmatics. Got rid of that stupid exposure counter wheel. It sticks out way too far.

Make sure the surface of the septums is clean because they contact the film. I've had a couple of times where there was some splotchiness in the negs after developing. I clean them every now and then with alcohol.

Of course make sure your septums are straight. Check them every time you load film.

 

[shutterfinger]

And they do wear out. I have one with WB 28 painted on it. Parts 2 &3, plate stop lower and upper screw holes in the case assembly (part 13) are worn out and will not hold a screw in place.
Yes, it came from Southern California.

 

[urnem57]

Shutterfinger- is the felt mentioned in this post a good one to use to replace the leaking one in one of my Grafmatics?
I have read in other threads that it needs to be a certain thickness.
https://www.michaels.com/premium-felt-by-creatology/10529564.html
thanks!

 

[Patrick Robert James]

And they do wear out. I have one with WB 28 painted on it. Parts 2 &3, plate stop lower and upper screw holes in the case assembly (part 13) are worn out and will not hold a screw in place.
Yes, it came from Southern California.

You can repair screw holes with baking soda and super glue....

I have one that works except for one of the long springs pushing on the septums is missing.

 

[shutterfinger]

The screws go through the case then into the stops. The threads in the stops are fine, the holes in the case are worn so that the screw heads go through them.

Several years ago someone on graflex.org helpboard found that a 1 liter soda bottle cut around worked to repair/replace a bad spring in their grafmatic.
https://www.graflex.org/helpboard/viewtopic.php?t=470

 

[shutterfinger]

Shutterfinger- is the felt mentioned in this post a good one to use to replace the leaking one in one of my Grafmatics?
I have read in other threads that it needs to be a certain thickness.

I have some felt that I purchased from Michaels and JoAnn Fabrics. They are both 1/8 inch thick. They can be compressed to about 1/16. I know of no other source for felt of any thickness.
Leave me your address in a pm and I'll send you a piece.

 

[Bill Burk]

I also recommend that you check the tension on the springs that snap the top septum down to the bottom after shooting. You don't want a half-tensioned spring leaving part of the bottom septum not fully flat. If that happens you will bend the bottom septum and potentially scratch the film as the 5 septums above force that straggler down by force. You get two long deep scratches on a good part of the film when that happens... Also... I carry a few spares when I go out just in case. Looks like you will also have that luxury.

 

[GRAYnomad]

It's also a good idea to always have a change bag with you. I've had one lock up in the field and I had to put the entire camera inside a bag to free things up without losing previous exposures.

 

[removed account4]

Sounds like you are putting them in backwards. The closed end goes toward the slide. There are tabs that hold the film in the open end where the cutouts are on the septums.

Also, put them all in at the same time. Much easier that way.

Yeah orientation...
Yeah loading bag magazines ( bagmags) is the same way.. you put the whole stack in at once or it gets jammed up

Was just thinking about glass plates in Grafmatic -- I don't think it would mechanically

If you ever get a graflex slr ( tele or series d &c) you might find a bag mags that took plates. They work great, and are heavy. the only problem with a bagmag ( aside from bent up septum ) at is the bag (leather ) is a wreck and needs to be replaced by someone who knows ye olde light proof stitch .. 30 years ago it cost idk 35$. No clue who does that these days...

When you cycle through put the darkslide back in before you take your exposure. The darkslide holds the septum flat and blocks extraneous light. I've seen people treat the darkslide like a regular film holder dangling out. No bueno.

I took pliers to all my Grafmatics. Got rid of that stupid exposure counter wheel. It sticks out way too far.

Of course make sure your septums are straight. Check them every time you load film.

Great advice!
The dark slide dangling out is an accident waiting to happen
And that exposure wheel is a PITA as soon as I got my grafmatic I took tin snips to that wheel last thing I want is a number on my negative.

 

[Donald Qualls]

It's also a good idea to always have a change bag with you. I've had one lock up in the field and I had to put the entire camera inside a bag to free things up without losing previous exposures.

Yeah, I always carry my changing bag when I'm out with either my RB67 or any large format gear. Not that it's ever helped me with those...

 

[Donald Qualls]

Okay, I almost started a fresh thread for this, but decided to add it here -- it's related to my Grafmatic aspirations.

I bought a Graflok screen/hood assembly (the bit that lifts out to mount Graflok attachments -- no ground glass, but that's easy to fix), thinking I could transfer the "Graflok" back from a plastic electron microscope camera body I've used (about three times in fifteen years) as a pinhole camera. Went to mount the screen and hood, however, and found the spring legs don't even come close to fitting the Graflok back I have (I presume this means the back I have is "international" rather than "Graflok").

I saw the entire assembly, frame that mounts to the Speed/Crown body and all, on eBay shortly after I ordered this; they do come up occasionally, but I wanted to check that I wasn't just missing something. I should be able to unlock the slide plates and just drop the screen/hood assembly into place, right? Do the real Graflok frames have much deeper extension on the lock plates to accommodate accessories that I'm pretty confident fit this back (like Polaroid pack film holders)? How do accessories like Polaroid backs and Grafmatics center, if they're narrow enough to fit under the ground glass of a standard spring back?

 

[shutterfinger]

A Graflok/International back is a design that conforms to film holder/accessories standards only. Their focus panels can vary and not interchange.
Some spring backs do not extend far enough from the camera to allow a grafmatic to slip into the film holder frame of the camera.
Any film holder designed for a Graflok style back should fit into the holder frame and be locked into place with the slides.
Most if not all accessories will have a slot in their sides that the slide locks into.
Standard two sided film holders can be held in place with pressure from the slides even if they do not have slots for them.

How do accessories like Polaroid backs and Grafmatics center, if they're narrow enough to fit under the ground glass of a standard spring back?

The have the light trap ridge that slides into the grove on the insertion side of the camera back. They are the same dimensions from the light trap to end as standard two sided film holders. They are held in place by pressure from the spring back of graflok/international slides.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Okay, then I'm asking the question backward -- I've got the Grafmatic, and three old Polaroid backs -- a 500 (singles, like 55), 405 (3x4, aka Type 100) and 505 (4x5 print pack film), all of which are Graflok mount. I know the 500 fits under the ground glass on my Speed Graphic's spring back, and is Graflok compatible -- the 405 and 505 don't fit under that ground glass (I've mounted them on spring backs by taking the screw out of the middle of the spring leaf and retaining the Polaroid back with a piece of brass sheet, bent to fit).

But if the Graflok mount is only that big, how do the spring legs on the Graflock focusing screen/hood assembly fit (thinking of modifying the mount I have, rather than shelling out for another complete back)? I've never seen a full Graflok back up close...

 

[shutterfinger]

This is the graflok back on a Century Graphic, a 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 camera.
The focus panel is held by spring loaded arms with a hook on the end. The hook fits under a rod to the side of the film holder area. The focus panel is removed by pressing down on the knurled section of each arm and sliding the panel to the right. Installation is done by sitting the panel in the holder opening with the arms to the right of the rods/catches then pushing left.

Post pictures of the back you have you want to modify.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Ah. I see now. So to modify the lock-on back I have, I'd need to cut the relief for the spring arms under the lock plates, and install the rods. Seems possible. First, I need to take the back off the body and check if it's hollow; if not, I should be able to detach the lock plates and use the screen/hood assembly to ensure the reliefs fit and locate the rods.

Still seems possible. I'll get some pictures of the electron microscope camera's back, hopefully tonight.

 

[grat]

I took pliers to all my Grafmatics. Got rid of that stupid exposure counter wheel. It sticks out way too far.

And rendered all of them completely unsaleable in my opinion-- Not necessarily because the wheel was removed, but because people like you can't be bothered to remove it the right way.

Personally, I like the indicator, and have never had a problem with the number obscuring too much of my photos. It doesn't even show up in a 4x5 scan on the epson, and only consumes about 3mm off the bottom edge.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Okay, here are photos of the Graflok back I have on my electron microscope camera body. Seems I don't know the trick of embedding images stored in Dropbox, so here are the URLs:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/a3089q7lx4kdkj7/IMG_20210312_185832.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5zq5ncf1597op1j/IMG_20210312_185855.jpg?dl=0

Looking closely, I don't know if there's enough material under the lock plates to hog out clearance for the spring legs on the focusing panel.

 

[shutterfinger]

It was designed to use the slide locks only.

 

[Sirius Glass]

All my Grafmatics have the wheel and I use the numbers. The wheel takes so little space on the edge that only those of very little minds would remove them. I would not buy Grafmatics without the wheels.

 

[Donald Qualls]

It was designed to use the slide locks only.

Certainly seems that way.

So the question is, is it still possible to upgrade my Anniversary Speed to a Graflok? I'm not very interested in just buying a Pacemaker model -- they're not that common with the Kalart RF (which I understand is the only one that can be fairly readily recalibrated for different lenses), and a Crown won't float my boat (not least because my primary lens on the Speed is in a shutter with the works removed -- essentially a barrel Tessar).

 

[shutterfinger]

There was a retro fit graflok made for the Anny but fiinding one these days will be hard. The screw holes for the Pacemaker Crown/Speed graflok back are off set about 1/2-2/3 the diameter of the screw to the right to where the Anny screw holes are. The holes can be elongated and made to fit.

 

[richyd]

I also recommend that you check the tension on the springs that snap the top septum down to the bottom after shooting. You don't want a half-tensioned spring leaving part of the bottom septum not fully flat. If that happens you will bend the bottom septum and potentially scratch the film as the 5 septums above force that straggler down by force. You get two long deep scratches on a good part of the film when that happens... Also... I carry a few spares when I go out just in case. Looks like you will also have that luxury.

Thanks for that insight. With one of my holders, paradoxically the smoothest operationally, I would occasionally get these tramline scratches on a sheet of film and I couldn't work out what could be causing it as it was quite random. It has been bugging me since I got it and just checked and sure enough there was a gap between the ends of those spring clips and the bottom so they would not hold down the septum shifting from top to bottom. I've adjusted it now so hope will not ruin any more sheets of E6 !