Graflex 6x9 120 roll back Rewind?

[peter k.]

First time I have used this roll back, its a 6x9 so it will take 8 shots.. finished the roll, and yes it advanced to the next shot, thru them all, as I shot them, but now how do you rewind it?
I pressed the lever to the left as if advancing to the next shot, and rolled the knob counterclockwise but felt no end to it, so put in dark bag, and it is not rewound.
Is something amiss, or did I try to rewind it wrong?
Thanks..

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

120 (and 220 if you have it) film doesn't rewind. Just advance it from the feed spool until it's all on the takeup spool, remove the film, and tape it shut using the tape at the end of the roll. It's generally a good idea not to do this under direct sunlight and keep the film in a dark place (like the pocket of a camera bag) for most of the time until you process it or have it processed.

Move the feed spool to the takeup side, and it becomes the new takeup spool.

 

[peter k.]

I'm sorry, used wrong terminology, da know it doesn't rewind, what I meant, was turning the knob counterclockwise it did not seem to come to any conclusion, as I kept advancing it.
Put it just now back into the dark bag, when I turn the knob counterclockwise, the film is not moving. Nothing is happening.
Was I not suppose to press the lever left, has that some how messed it up.. or?

 

[shutterfinger]

I ass u me that you have a Graphic 23 roll film holder.
Pressing the release lever and turning the knob in the direction of the arrow should wind the trail backing paper of the roll onto the takeup spool, no rewind.
In total darkness remove the insert from the shell. Has the film advanced to the take up spool? If not how much is left?
Manually wind the film/backing paper onto the take up spool, secure and remove from total darkness.
Now on the take up side grip the wind key with one hand and turn the wind knob in the direction of the arrow(s).
Does the wind key try to turn as you turn the knob or does it stay stationary?
Turns with the knob with pressure applied to the key- normal operation, suspect faulty take up spool.
Stays stationary with little pressure applied to the key as the wind knob is turned- wind key stripped. Repair with JB weld or similar product.
The wind key is Left hand thread.

 

[summicron1]

I'm sorry, used wrong terminology, da know it doesn't rewind, what I meant, was turning the knob counterclockwise it did not seem to come to any conclusion, as I kept advancing it.
Put it just now back into the dark bag, when I turn the knob counterclockwise, the film is not moving. Nothing is happening.
Was I not suppose to press the lever left, has that some how messed it up.. or?

if the film is not advancing past 8, there seems to be an issue with your back. you might try it while open, using a dummy roll, to see what's going on.

 

[peter k.]

Well before these last replies, I rewound it by hand.. and alas... believe that if lucky, half the roll was exposed. Will find out when I develop it.
Sigh..
Tested it with a roll before I tried it, but just the paper part.. will try that again and see if I can find anything amiss, as there has to be.
Strange, it showed it advancing, clicking to the next shout number, and it felt like it was, with the feeling of resistance as it wound to the next shot ...

 

[Dan Fromm]

Peter, download the manual from here: http://www.southbristolviews.com/pics/Graphic/graphicmanuals.html

Then read the manual.

 

[shutterfinger]

Reread post 4.
The wind key is the soft metal part that meshes with the take up spool. It is common for it to strip from excessive pressure required to turn the film or from metal fatigue. The advance gearing will turn the wind gears that advance the counter while the wind key sits and spins on the shaft doing nothing.

 

[summicron1]

Well before these last replies, I rewound it by hand.. and alas... believe that if lucky, half the roll was exposed. Will find out when I develop it.
Sigh..
Tested it with a roll before I tried it, but just the paper part.. will try that again and see if I can find anything amiss, as there has to be.
Strange, it showed it advancing, clicking to the next shout number, and it felt like it was, with the feeling of resistance as it wound to the next shot ...

hmmm. Well, it is entirely possible there's a problem with its little mechanism. After 60 years or so anything can go loopy.

Is this for the Graflex or a speed? The graflex ones are hard to find, would be worth a repair if you can find someone to do it, or maybe put a different mechanism into this shell.

 

[peter k.]

Ha, Busted flat in baton rouge ...
Turn knob, take up real does not move, but as it is wound goes to the next number shot and stops.. as if it were working. Yet when I loaded the film, I was able to advance it to the start, 'Arrow" position, butr at some point, which the development will tell, it quit.
So wind up key must be stripped...
Next:
Repair

 

[shutterfinger]

Wind key index 35.

 

[peter k.]

Thank you shutterfinger...
Its a Crown Grafic 2x3 ... with Graflok back.. nice little camera, came with a Ektar 101mm 4.5, but not the lens I thought it was going to be.
Turned out to be a Synchro Rapid 800.. rater than just a regular 4.5. Now that I'm back home from Texas and the volunteer work I was involved with, will screw around with the lens some more. Can't mess it up anymore than it was. Got the manual for it, and found someone had been in there before, Thought a spring was broken as there was a piece of straight spring in the lens area, but all springs seem to be there, but two where not set correctly. Meanwhile been using a Wollensack 6.8, 90mm for the heck of it, so to learn and get familiar with it, while I look for an Ektar 101mm 4.5 on the bay, there's a few there .. but..

 

[shutterfinger]

See http://www.graflex.org/helpboard/viewtopic.php?t=6391 for additional information.

 

[peter k.]

from post#4

Stays stationary with little pressure applied to the key as the wind knob is turned- wind key stripped. Repair with JB weld or similar product.

Do you just apply the JB weld to the end of the shaft and the bottom part of the "Knob", or do you take the "Knob" off, and apply a little to the shaft?

 

[shutterfinger]

You hold the knob/wind pinion shaft stationary and unscrew the wind key. Turn the key to the right to unscrew it. Most striped wind keys will unscrew. If it will not unscrew on its own pry between the insert frame and the key and try again. On servery stripped wind keys they have to be pried off or cut off. Once the key is off apply the JB Weld to the striped thread area and reattach to the pinion shaft wiping the excess JB Weld off and allow to cure.

 

[peter k.]

Ah... misunderstanding... its not the plastic wind key #3, which is giving the trouble..... that is turning the gears and the "Knob" #35, that actually rotates the film. Its the "Knob" #35 that is not functioning properly. It turns, until you touch it! Somehow stripped.
Is that just pressed on?
Proof:
When I rotate the plastic knob, and hold the gear #32, the plastic knob will not turn, proving that the plastic knob #3 is not what is stripped. But when I rotate the plastic knob #3, and hold #35, you can see the steel shaft turning withing #35.

 

[shutterfinger]

Post #4, #11, and #15. OR
Super glue the wind knob to the top cover so that it will not turn then throw it away.

 

[peter k.]

Hahaha... with some 120 paper spooled off of it, with a weight on the end, we could hang it on a wall as an artificial 'Postal Note'
Thanks for your humor and help.

 

[shutterfinger]

What humor
sometime after Singer ownership they started pressing them on. what a PITA to fix one of them.
you's is an ant hill not a mountain.

 

[peter k.]

Yes the ant hills are in the garden, and this is not a mountain, nor a PITA.
The humor is that its not the plastic top knob, that you keep referring to.. its the actual part with the two prongs, labeled #35 in post #11, of the diagram that you sent, showing the breakdown of the parts, so there is no need to unwind that knob, as you describe in post #15.
The trouble is at the bottom of that shaft, where it enters the domain of the film chamber. It turns with the shaft until you resist it with a finger, but you can see the bottom of the shaft, that ends in the film chamber, turning, so gearing, winding knob and all else on that shaft is OK as the winding knob is not stripped.. The bottom film advance, "Knob" that goes into the end of the actual film cartilage, is what is stripped.
The fun is in you think I am not reading closely your posts, and perhaps your correct, and my belief that you did not read my post #16, and misunderstood it, because there are to many "knobs" to consider in that post to know what is what.
Then again, I could be totally mistaken, and I have a full misunderstanding, which is also humorous, as we are trying to repair something that will advance the film, and ourselves to other pursuits. AKA shoot another roll of film, as it advances, .. with this roll film holder.

 

[shutterfinger]

And I have made new ones from brass rod.
$$?
While holding index 3 steady index 35 should unscrew by turning it to the right. If index 35 just spins pry it off. Continued attempt to use it in its current state may require it to be cut off and replaced.

Tip: winding to a frame number will lock pinion shaft 34 making removal of index 3 or index 35 easier.

 

[shutterfinger]

Lists of doohickeys, thingamajigs, whatchamacallits for post #11 as I can no longer edit post 11.

 

[shutterfinger]

Well, did you turn it into a necklace, bracelet, or door stop?

 

[peter k.]

Nahhh... it got fixed...
Funny was not informed by Apug that there were new replies. Ahh just checked had not deleted the last one received the other day, my bad, so no new ones showed.

Ok... could not slip the end off, nor with pressure on the "Knob" would it unscrew.. So it must have been pressed on. It may well be a Singer because there is no label on it saying "23", just a black back.
So notched it. Started with an X-Acto fine tooth saw, then a fine tooth hack saw blade. Filled the notch with a (see photo's) using a strand from an old Chimney Cleaning Brush, that had unraveled, and still had some strands lying in the gavel. Attached that to the notch with some JB weld.
Tested it over half a dozen times, as something was wrong, with the way it advanced.. was not behaving correctly.
Daaaa.. So Note: Be sure to have Counter Dial, item #9 (from post #11) set in the correct direction!
Putting it back together I had placed it 180* off.
So its ready for a full test, will see how it does.
Thanks all for your help.

 

[shutterfinger]

They can be a bear, black or brown.

The thread is 3-58 left hand.