Good starter medium format camera?

[Deleted member 88956]

Original Pentax 645, certainly easy to get for 300-400 with lens and in great condition. This price range is for an excellent condition kit, may even get same for $200-250.

 

[Donald Qualls]

I do not use the WLF with my Hasselblad; I only use the 45°prism.

If I had such a prism for my RB67, I might not use it much. I find the weight of the camera makes my hands shake when I hold it up to use the magnifier in the WLF -- so when I have it off the tripod, I focus with the magnifier, but to expose, I let the camera hang on the strap and use the WLF the way it's designed to be used. I think your Hassy is probably a fair bit lighter, though, so it might work better with that system.

 

[abruzzi]

I am a huge fan of collapsible waist level finders (at least on medium format cameras.) Part of it is size. Without grip and prism, the ETRSi is tiny, easily as small as a 6x6 TLR, but unlike most TLRs it has interchangeable lenses and through the lens viewing. Part of it is that it is much more pleasurable looking at a piece of ground glass instead of having to look through an eyepiece. I do find it better on 6x7 than 6x4.5 since the larger ground glass is a big improvement. I would think that would make me like TLRs, but I find the vertical orientation of the camera makes me 10x more likely to not get it straight. I have found that most of the shots I take on my Yashica-Mat need straightening, which is uncommon at best on the ETRSi or the GS-1.

 

[brainmonster]

Well my Mamiya 645E arrived from KEH....and it's DOA. Put in the battery, no lights in the viewfinder after pressing the shutter button, as it's supposed to light up I'm not sure if this camera is usable without a battery, I think the shutter may be electronically controlled. If so I guess it's going back to KEH. Even if it did work without the AE, it would be a big bummer to try to use it without the meter.

Cleaned the battery contacts with an eraser as recommended by others. If anyone has any other advice, please tell me.

Guess I'm off in search of another model...

 

[MattKing]

Before you send it back, try a couple of other batteries - the 645 line of Mamiya cameras all require a good battery, and I've certainly encountered batteries that are apparently new but have actually deteriorated in the package.
In order of preference, I would suggest first the lithium versions, then the silver oxide versions and then the alkaline versions. Strangely enough, the best internet searches for these batteries give you results for dog collar batteries.
It probably goes without saying, but the polarity of the battery needs to be correct. And the shutter lock should be turned off.
Mike Butkus' site has the manual - I'd suggest you send him his requested donation if you use it.

 

[brainmonster]

The only Lithium battery I could find in Hawaii that is the equivalent would be the Duracell 28L Seems equivalent to the PX28L battery, but it doesn't specifically list it as equivalent to 2CR1/3N. The manual lists the required lithium battery as 2CR1/3N, but some google searches indicate it's equivalent to PX28L.

http://www.smallbattery.company.org.uk/sbc_px28l.htm

https://www.acehardware.com/departm...tteries/specialty-batteries/36227?store=02325

Do you think it will work? Should I try it or might it fry the electronics?

Before you send it back, try a couple of other batteries - the 645 line of Mamiya cameras all require a good battery, and I've certainly encountered batteries that are apparently new but have actually deteriorated in the package.
In order of preference, I would suggest first the lithium versions, then the silver oxide versions and then the alkaline versions. Strangely enough, the best internet searches for these batteries give you results for dog collar batteries.
It probably goes without saying, but the polarity of the battery needs to be correct. And the shutter lock should be turned off.
Mike Butkus' site has the manual - I'd suggest you send him his requested donation if you use it.

 

[MattKing]

The Duracell illustration has the wrong photo - the one shown is clearly labelled as alkaline, even if the product description is clearly of a lithium version.
In my experience, fresh, fully charged examples of all three types work fine in the 645 cameras, and any good, fresh and fully charged one should work fine for testing the camera. It is just that the lithium and silver oxide versions last considerably longer, and I have had a couple of problems (over a period of several years) with the alkaline ones having discharged before the package was opened.
That being said, I leave a couple of alkaline cells in my camera bags as backups, while trying to use silver oxide (and probably lithium in the future) in the cameras. My last eBay purchase of the alkaline cells cost me $14.00 CDN for 16 of them.

 

[brainmonster]

The Duracell illustration has the wrong photo - the one shown is clearly labelled as alkaline, even if the product description is clearly of a lithium version.
In my experience, fresh, fully charged examples of all three types work fine in the 645 cameras, and any good, fresh and fully charged one should work fine for testing the camera. It is just that the lithium and silver oxide versions last considerably longer, and I have had a couple of problems (over a period of several years) with the alkaline ones having discharged before the package was opened.
That being said, I leave a couple of alkaline cells in my camera bags as backups, while trying to use silver oxide (and probably lithium in the future) in the cameras. My last eBay purchase of the alkaline cells cost me $14.00 CDN for 16 of them.

These are the batteries I used. It's hard to see, they are labeled UL544A/ 4LR44. Carton was marked A544, which is the replacement for 4LR44. It's an off brand, so I might try to find a duracell or energizer version if I can. Seems like a risk trying the 28L batteries which may or may not work.

I bought these fresh from a battery store, I tested the voltage and they both tested at 6.3 volts or something, which is a little bit high, so I wonder if that's a problem.

Interestingly, without the battery in when I fire the shutter the shutter stays open. With the batteries in, the shutter closes after I fire it, or closes if open and if I insert the battery. So it seems like the electronic shutter may work with these batteries, but the viewfinder LED display doesn't.

Anyway I'll see what I can dig up tomorrow.

 

[Jeremy Mudd]

It's possible the viewfinder is the problem.

I went through something similar once, and it turned out the connections just needed cleaned. Once I did that problems were solved.

Good luck!

Jeremy

 

[johnha]

Make sure the 'rabbit ears' on the lens are engaged with the metering pin under the 'Mamiya' name on the front. This mechanism tells the body which aperture the lens it set to, if it's not connected, it may not operate the meter?

Also try firing the shutter at different speeds in manual to see if that works.

 

[brainmonster]

The little metal cam connected to the body is indeed engaged with the cam on the aperture ring correctly, so the body should know what aperture the camera is at.

I exercised the shutter at all speeds, and the shutter seems accurate to the ear at all speeds with the battery in. It doesn't work and the viewfinder blacks out if the battery is out. So the problem must be with the LEDs not lighting up in the viewfinder. Unfortunately the E model has a fixed viewfinder so I can't remove it to clean the contacts.

Looks like it's probably going back to KEH for repair or refund unless another battery solves the problem, which it doesn't seem like it would, but I'll try.

Make sure the 'rabbit ears' on the lens are engaged with the metering pin under the 'Mamiya' name on the front. This mechanism tells the body which aperture the lens it set to, if it's not connected, it may not operate the meter?

I also tried to switch the lens between A/M modes and this made no difference, still no LEDs in the viewfinder.

Also try firing the shutter at different speeds in manual to see if that works.

 

[MattKing]

I bought these fresh from a battery store, I tested the voltage and they both tested at 6.3 volts or something, which is a little bit high, so I wonder if that's a problem.

Those are alkaline cells, which is fine, and 6.3V should be fine as well.
Using a battery tester sometimes misleads, unless the batteries are tested under load.

 

[johnha]

I exercised the shutter at all speeds, and the shutter seems accurate to the ear at all speeds with the battery in. It doesn't work and the viewfinder blacks out if the battery is out. So the problem must be with the LEDs not lighting up in the viewfinder. Unfortunately the E model has a fixed viewfinder so I can't remove it to clean the contacts.

Looks like it's probably going back to KEH for repair or refund unless another battery solves the problem, which it doesn't seem like it would, but I'll try.

Sounds like a return is in order, try spinning the ISO dial from one extreme to the other - sometimes this helps clear the contacts. It could be the LEDs or the circuitry or the micro-switch on the metering position of the shutter release.

Have you tried it on Auto with different apertures to see if the metering is changing the shutter speed?

When you return it, the more info you can give them might speed things up.

 

[brainmonster]

Sounds like a return is in order, try spinning the ISO dial from one extreme to the other - sometimes this helps clear the contacts. It could be the LEDs or the circuitry or the micro-switch on the metering position of the shutter release.

Have you tried it on Auto with different apertures to see if the metering is changing the shutter speed?

When you return it, the more info you can give them might speed things up.

I tried spinning the ISO dial a few times. Still no LEDs in viewfinder. I tried the camera in A mode, and changing the apertures, it seems to change the shutter speed. So it seems like the metering is working. It must be just the LEDs that are not lighting up. I wonder if that's something they would be able to fix - but it could be any number of things going wrong in the circuitry causing the dynamic display to not show up.

On another note, I also got a flash in the same order, and it also wasn't working. Left the batteries in it and left it for half the day, came back, and magically, the flash started working with test fire.

So, I'll try to leave the battery in the Mamiya overnight to see if that does anything. Maybe there are some capacitors or something that aren't charging up. But seems unlikely that the same thing would work twice

 

[Deleted member 88956]

If you bought a camera that was to be in fully working condition, then it either works as designed or does not. I don't see a point in trying to wait on it to report to work. Since KEH is such a great outfit (yes, some sarcasm here) they will gladly accept it. Hopefully they will also give you back all postage fees, both ways.

I was never sold on the idea of 645 E version the moment it hit the market. It just felt so not Mamiya 645 for some reason. Probably because of its stripped down "retarded" built for what the line stood for. If I were to go that route, I'd rather buy older M645.

 

[MattKing]

I was never sold on the idea of 645 E version the moment it hit the market. It just felt so not Mamiya 645 for some reason. Probably because of its stripped down "retarded" built for what the line stood for. If I were to go that route, I'd rather buy older M645.

As I've posted before, I like the 645E.
Not least because of the built in pentamirror finder, with built in adjustable diopter and much more modern metering system than the older 645 bodies.
I like the idea as well of the available thumb powered winder

 

[brainmonster]

If you bought a camera that was to be in fully working condition, then it either works as designed or does not. I don't see a point in trying to wait on it to report to work. Since KEH is such a great outfit (yes, some sarcasm here) they will gladly accept it. Hopefully they will also give you back all postage fees, both ways.

I was never sold on the idea of 645 E version the moment it hit the market. It just felt so not Mamiya 645 for some reason. Probably because of its stripped down "retarded" built for what the line stood for. If I were to go that route, I'd rather buy older M645.

Have you heard bad things about KEH? I have no idea, but in my particular order, I wasn't really impressed with what they sent me (2 items DOA, and an additional item was incorrect). Hopefully they will give me the refund for postage, because it simply doesn't work...

 

[Deleted member 88956]

Have you heard bad things about KEH? I have no idea, but in my particular order, I wasn't really impressed with what they sent me (2 items DOA, and an additional item was incorrect). Hopefully they will give me the refund for postage, because it simply doesn't work...

My actual direct experience with KEH is long time back which was fine. Now, for quite a few years, I'm perplexed by everything they (not)show on their site and sell at whatever grade they chose, essentially purchases sight unseen supposedly backed by unconditional return policy. I simply do not understand how one can sell used products this way. This alone makes me stay away from them whenever I still buy in the US. I've had really good luck with Robert's Camera through ebay purchases (never bought direct, but given how everything turned out I doubt they have a different standard).

 

[johnha]

As I've posted before, I like the 645E.
Not least because of the built in pentamirror finder, with built in adjustable diopter and much more modern metering system than the older 645 bodies.
I like the idea as well of the available thumb powered winder

There is a similar finder for the 645 Pro (it was part of the SV kit). Although it doesn't display the shutter speed - it flashes the over & under LEDs at different rates - you have to work it out. The SV kit also came with a lighter power winder.

 

[MattKing]

My post was in relation to the comparison between the 645E and the older Mamiya 645 models - the ones that preceded the 645 Super.
I like my 645 Pro, and its interchangeable backs.

 

[David Reynolds]

Sorry to hear about you experience with buying from a retail supplier. My advice would be to return the camera and parts as they did not operate as described. I would then place a WTB ad on Photrio for the model you desire . My experiences on Photrio have all been positive and prices tend to be lower than most retail offerings. Good Luck

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Send it back to KEH. I don't quite understand how they remain in business with the way they operate - perhaps spending their good reputation and exploiting less knowledgeable buyers who don't know what's wrong until 14 days after they get whatever they've gotten. From what I've gleaned from talking to their sales people, the rating and storage of the camera takes place in a completely different location from where the sales people are, so they are literally never able to answer any questions, even the most basic ones. For example, I saw a Kodak Medalist posted last week, and the pictures of it didn't have a lens (!) This is a fixed lens camera! So I asked the sales people and they were like "we have no clue what you will get if you order this." Because of course, they don't post pictures of things. But sometimes if it's a unique item they've never had before, the pictures will actually be of the real item. I think this system may have worked OK for them in the past when the ratings were largely accurate and conservative but business pressures seems to have pushed their ratings less conservative, and the people checking and rating stuff have either gotten lazy or someone retired and they got someone less experienced. Because I've recently gotten some stuff that was really messed up, including in bargain condition. And the ugly condition is really garbage, full of fungus or other really major issues. It's not the condition that "only a photographer would love," it's condition that needs to be sent immediately to a CLA or bought by someone who will repair it themselves. That is to say, it's the same condition that on eBay would be in "as-is for parts." And how sad is it that eBay average, even Japanese ebay beats KEH condition!

Anyways, I still buy from them because as their expertise has waned, sometimes there will be screaming deals on obscure items their rating and pricing people doesn't know the rarity of, and sell for pennies on their value.

If you want gear that will work as described, I can't recommend Roberts Photo/Used Photo Pro enough. Everything is a bit cheaper on their website than eBay, and I've only ever had good experiences with them. I recommend National Camera Exchange even more highly, which in my experience is the last big camera store I've seen that still rates really conservatively, posts pictures, has high volume and prices competitively.

 

[Sirius Glass]

KEH will pay for the return postage. KEH will repair, replace or refund. You lost nothing.

 

[warden]

Have you heard bad things about KEH? I have no idea, but in my particular order, I wasn't really impressed with what they sent me (2 items DOA, and an additional item was incorrect).

KEH is such a large supplier that you're likely to hear every opinion under the sun about them. My experience has been very good but people that I respect here dislike them greatly. I don't know how they rated your camera body but once you're satisfied that the problem isn't the batteries it's time to have KEH fix the problem. They need to pay all shipping and either fix the products or refund the purchase cost. Sorry to hear of your time being wasted here. Not cool.

 

[warden]

KEH will pay for the return postage. KEH will repair, replace or refund. You lost nothing.

The OP lost time, which has value. Perhaps the OP should have ordered three bodies, kept the best one and returned the others?