Good starter medium format camera?

[brainmonster]

I have a budget of about $300,maybe $400. I have a lubitel and it's total crap, so I'd like to get something better. I was thinking about some sort of cheap folder camera for $50-100, or something better for $300-$400. What can I get? I'd like to avoid another TLR, and try an SLR or rangefinder type camera instead. Any suggestions?

 

[Donald Qualls]

For that money, you've got some choices. If a TLR will do the job, a Yashica 635, 124G, etc. is very good, or you might (with a little patience) find a Rolleicord in that range.

For folders, if they don't have to be cheap, a Bessa (not the 35mm rangefinder) is a very nice 6x9 cm folder with an excellent lens, coupled single-window RF, and sometimes in your price range. Or for a good bit less, a Moskva-5 has a two-window coupled RF and a Tessar-class lens, and some come with a format mask to let them double on 6x6. I owned one of these for a while back around 2002-2003, and should have kept it.

EDIT: Okay, didn't read closely enough -- for SLRs, there's really only one that I'd recommend that might land in your price range: you can, with a little patience, get a "from Japan" RB67 with one lens and one film back, possibly in need of light seals, for around $400. If you can, get it. Additional lenses are quite reasonable, film backs likewise, the cameras are still repairable, and they're completely battery free (no electronics to crap out without warning). Only major downside is they're heavy -- but I think that's likely to go for any MF SLR.

I've got one, and I love it -- it's not a walking around camera, by any stretch, but it was a serious studio camera for decades.

 

[Dan Fromm]

If you want a folder that won't fit in the average pocket, consider getting a 2x3 Crown or Century Graphic. Believe it or not the best standard issue lens is the 103/4.5 Trioptar. You'll also need a roll holder, they are available with 2.25" x 2.25" (so-called 6x6), 2.25" x 2.75" (so-called 6x7) and 2.25" x 3.25" (so-called 6x9) gates. 12, 10 and 8 exposures per roll of 120 film, respectively.

If you opt for a Crown, make sure that it has a Graflok back. The Century has an integral Graflok. And make sure that the camera has a focusing panel. Centuries are offered on eBay with a roll holder and no focusing panel much too often.

I suggest these because support three roll film formats and because they have interchangeable lenses. If you're inclined that way, you could build a system. And they're much solider than folders that fit in the typical pocket.

 

[jimjm]

You could find a lot of good cameras in your price range. Given that you want something other that a TLR, I'd look at a Zeiss Super Ikonta, which were made in 6x4.5, 6x6 and 6x9 versions. Here's a good overview.
Great build quality, durable bellows material, coupled rangefinder and nice Tessar lenses. I have a 1938 Super Ikonta B that I'm really happy with.
Try to find one that's been recently serviced, especially the shutter, RF mechanism and film wind-on. Certo6 is a great resource if you're looking to buy or need repairs.

 

[Paul Howell]

In the 300 to 400 range, Mamiya 6, the 50s folder, fixed 75mm lens, Minolta Autocord TLR, very good lens. Hard to find in the US for seem be common from EBAY Japan Fuji Super Fujica Six Rangefinder, been thinking about getting one myself.

 

[Helge]

Don’t discount TLRs because you were duped into the worst one ever.

But the best bang for buck in folders is still the Nettar/Ikonta 6x6 with Novar 4.5.

It’s simply superb. And if the camera is in good cosmetic nick it will most likely work flawlessly.
Otherwise it’s reasonably cheap to clean.
Don’t pay more than $200 for one and even then it should be in good condition.

They sold real well for a reason.

Today the up to 500th of a second leaf shutter, allows magic with a flash in daylight, and real, real slow syncs in the dark without shake and the possibility of putting it on a real light tripod because the camera itself is featherwight.
M sync allows pumping fluorescent subjects before exposure and of course using bulbs, which are still unequaled in strength vs. size.

Get a separate rangefinder.
They are better made, easier and less risky to clean and easier to calibrate. Something you’ll definitely need.
Personally I use a laser rangefinder for up to twenty meters.
A bit fiddly, but very precise and reassuring.

 

[ignatiu5]

What can I get? I'd like to avoid another TLR, and try an SLR or rangefinder type camera instead. Any suggestions?

Within your stated preference of an SLR or a rangefinder, there are so so so so many possible suggestions, more than you could ever appropriately assess.

What do you want to shoot? Landscapes? Portraits? Macro? Street?

How portable do you want or need the camera system to be?

What are your priorities for interchangeable lenses, film backs, viewfinders? Meters? Autofocus? All mechanical? Latest electronics? Modular system you can build and customize over time? Folder you can stick in your pocket?

Your question gets asked every week in every analog forum that exists, and if you don’t provide some guidance to your priorities, you’re about to get a “suggestion” listing of every medium format camera ever created, the vast majority of which probably won’t mesh with your needs and/or budget.

 

[seall]

Another for the RB67.

Tough cameras made for being used with excellent glass for the price. I have several and will not be selling them in a hurry even though I don't use them very often. They may be a little heavier than some other medium format cameras but if I am not bothered about movements I will happily grab one rather than the extra weight a large format kit adds.

But, it has to be at least a "ProS" or the "ProSD", having interlocks avoids a few potential problems.

I have found the weight can help stability whilst using a tripod whilst I can still use the camera handheld.

Every now and again you will get one on the auction site that is a kit which has been in a loft for years.

The last one I bought came in a metal case and had multiple lenses and other extras. It had been in a loft for 20 years. It cost me something about £250 and it works perfectly and the lenses are very clean. I had to replace a couple of seals but that is a cheap and easy thing to do.

There are plenty of them for sale but be aware that there are both good condition examples along with not good so it is worth a bit of research on your behalf before purchase. Getting a good one is not hard and it will last a long time, always ready for you to use it.

As much as went down the same route you are taking, started looking for something a bit smaller but I have no regrets buying the RB67's as they have helped me learn more about medium format photography and photography in general than any other camera I have owned.

Good luck and enjoy!

 

[Dan Daniel]

I have a budget of about $300,maybe $400. I have a lubitel and it's total crap, so I'd like to get something better. I was thinking about some sort of cheap folder camera for $50-100, or something better for $300-$400. What can I get? I'd like to avoid another TLR, and try an SLR or rangefinder type camera instead. Any suggestions?

As you can see, you'll get all sorts of suggestions.

Two things: One, what do you want to do with it? Why medium format? What kind of things are you shooting? What about the Lubitel sucked (well, it didn't work, but did the overall process appeal to you)?

Two, the odds are that you will not be buying your only medium format camera as the first one. Just relax and accept this. Maybe the first one does exactly what you want and you never wonder about other cameras again. But most likely, the differences are big enough that if you buy an SLR you'll always wonder about a quality TLR or a rangefinder and some day you will buy one.

So maybe say more about what you want to do and why you think a medium format camera is what you need to do it? then you might get better advise other than everyone's personal favorite.

 

[Horatio]

Don’t overlook the Bronicas. I got an SQ with three finders, a winder, two lenses and two backs for $200.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

For $400 with standard lens, prism and back I think you can get a Bronica GS-1 if you look hard enough. If you found one for that price, it would undoubtedly be the best camera for the money. I agree with other recommendations of Bronica SQ and Mamiya RB67, and would throw Mamiya C330 into the ring as well. I wouldn't pay more than $200 for a Rolleicord (and I think they are excellent cameras). Mamiya Autocord is also excellent, at $300 but imo overpriced compared to the Rolleicord. I strongly advise against folders as your first medium format camera. They are hard to focus accurately, compared to other medium format cameras their lenses often leave something to be desired, and looking through a waist level finder is one of the great joys of medium format photography -- you can never have this with a folder. If you want a budget rangefinder with great lenses, get a Koni Omega Rapid.

 

[ignatiu5]

...
Two, the odds are that you will not be buying your only medium format camera as the first one. Just relax and accept this. Maybe the first one does exactly what you want and you never wonder about other cameras again. But most likely, the differences are big enough that if you buy an SLR you'll always wonder about a quality TLR or a rangefinder and some day you will buy one.

Well, by that logic, the OP will shortly end up buying and trying a half dozen different MF cameras! And honestly, who is going to go through that song and dance?

(answer: Every. One. ).
Now where did I put my Marolleiblaxes...?

 

[NB23]

The best starter MF camera is a Mamiya C220 +80 or 60mm lens.
Avoiding TLRs because of a lubitel is like becoming gay because a girlfriend dumped you. Or boycotting cars, including Ferraris, because you once drove a ford escort 1984 (gosh those were horrible. Just like a lubitel).

It’s such a good system that you won’t need to upgrade, ever.

 

[Helge]

The best starter MF camera is a Mamiya C220 +80 or 60mm lens.
Avoiding TLRs because of a lubitel is like becoming gay because a girlfriend dumped you. Or boycotting cars, including Ferraris, because you once drove a ford escort 1984 (gosh those were horrible. Just like a lubitel).

It’s such a good system that you won’t need to upgrade, ever.

It's strange how much the Mamiya TLRs has suddenly picked up attention. within the last six months or so.
From being kind of cultish and living way back in the shadow of the RB and other SLRs.

They are big and heavy, and changing the lenses while not hard per se, is just so cumbersome the you will feel like not doing it in the field.
Carrying the the extra lenses is impossible without a large bag and a strong back.

Very often you'll end up with the standard 80 mm 2.8 lens more or less glued on, at which point the whole idea of the camera is more or less lost.

Not saying the idea is bad. But perhaps is more for the studio or studio like circumstance?

 

[NB23]

My experience (and therefore my opinion) are hardly influenced by anyone.

I purchased my first MF camera 25 years ago: a Mamiya C220 with a 65mm lens. That camera and lens are still in use today. And with proper care (in other words, with heavy use and an inexpensive CLA every 20 years), it should be good for 100 years. I don’t see why it would last less than a rolleiflex.

Over time I have added many rolleiflexes abd other uBer expensive gear to my arsenal, but I have also overbuilt my Mamiya TLR Kit, which I use regularly next to the rolleiflexes.

The only reason for having indulged into the rolleiflex was pure romanticism. And as a young adult, the hasselblad ownership was born out of a complex.

In hindsight, I could have lived with only a C220 all this time. And no, it’s not heavy, it’s at least like a Rollei 2.8F. And with the grip, it’s very comfortable. And the screen is very bright.

If I had to, I could travel the world with a Mamiya TLR without needing anything else, ever. I’d definitely not do that with a hasselblad, bronica, folders, RB or RZ.

This is only my opinion based on 25 years experience with a mamiya TLR while many other cameras couldn’t go beyond a few months.

It's strange how much the Mamiya TLRs has suddenly picked up attention. within the last six months or so.
From being kind of cultish and living way back in the shadow of the RB and other SLRs.

They are big and heavy, and changing the lenses while not hard per se, is just so cumbersome the you will feel like not doing it in the field.
Carrying the the extra lenses is impossible without a large bag and a strong back.

Very often you'll end up with the standard 80 mm 2.8 lens more or less glued on, at which point the whole idea of the camera is more or less lost.

Not saying the idea is bad. But perhaps is more for the studio or studio like circumstance?

 

[MattKing]

They are big and heavy, and changing the lenses while not hard per se, is just so cumbersome the you will feel like not doing it in the field.
Carrying the the extra lenses is impossible without a large bag and a strong back.

This I don't understand.
I've carried a body and two or three lenses in a smallish bag for decades. And as long as you use a short neckstrap, and a good bag, switching lenses is a one handed operation.
Of course, with 40 years of history doing this, it sort of comes easily.

 

[baachitraka]

Rolleicord Va
+ Bright screen
+ Not so heavy (just like other cords)
+ Xenars are sharp
+ Accessories are cheap including pol filter
+ Rolleinars for close up photos
+ Lots of fun...
- Focus knob on left and winding on right

Rolleicord V
+ Focus and wind on right side
- Not so bright screen

Get one and you are fine for long time

 

[138S]

I have a budget of about $300,maybe $400.

Kiev 88 is a choice in that budget

https://mrleica.com/hasselblad-vs-kiev-88/

Price of MF cameras has skyrocketed, sadly.

For MF, if making portraits, I'd avoid rangefinders, many times you play with narrow selective focus and you have to see what happens in reflex the viewfinder.

 

[NB23]

Rolleicord, of course.

kiev88? Jeezakrice, i’ve had 4 break in my hands within the first roll of film. No jokes. I’ve never finished a roll in any kiev88 I’ve owned.

 

[Tom Conway]

Another vote for the Bronica GS-1. Smaller and lighter than RB/RZ, lenses are v. good. Price with body, waist finder and 100mm lens will probably be around $350 - $400USD. I've found the 100, 110 (macro) and 65 to be superb; accessories are available but may be pricey. The 6 X 7 negs are sweet and will confirm your decision to pursue MF!

 

[Paul Howell]

One thing to think about, do you print square? If not then a 6X4.5 might be a better choice, after all if you print 8X10 11X14 then you lose a 1/3 of the frame. Mamiya 645 with a lens or two in with in your budget.

 

[brainmonster]

One thing to think about, do you print square? If not then a 6X4.5 might be a better choice, after all if you print 8X10 11X14 then you lose a 1/3 of the frame. Mamiya 645 with a lens or two in with in your budget.

I don't print square...thinking about it, I think 6x4.5 would be a better choice, since you also get more shots (16 vs 12 seems like it would cut down the cost).

Currently bidding on a Mamiya 645, and also looking at a Kiev 60 modified for 6x4.5. Not sure about the Kiev, I've heard they're unreliable. I don't really want to get into the whole Russian camera thing again.

Hopefully I can get the Mamiya.

To answer the questions, my purpose would most likely to do portraits, I like photographing people. I really like the medium format quality for portraits, checking out the portraits on the portrait forum done in medium format, they look great. I also would enjoy doing landscapes on medium format, it seems like the resolution makes the detail really pop out.

There also seem to be a number of semi-compact Fuji rangefinder-type cameras that are pretty modern, that are around the $300-400 mark, so I'll take a look at those.

 

[138S]

Rolleicord, of course.

kiev88? Jeezakrice, i’ve had 4 break in my hands within the first roll of film. No jokes. I’ve never finished a roll in any kiev88 I’ve owned.

You are a bit destructive with the kievs 4 rolls 4 cameras

Of course the Kiev 88 cameras have a dispersion in quality, some will never fail, and some may fail soon. Probably it was not a camera for shooting weedings, but it can be good for an amateur usage, sooting some dozens of rolls per year.

Hasselblads also have their shutter stuck, it's important to learn how to prevent it and learning how to un-jam it: http://www.dmin-dmax.fr/photoe2b.htm

A difference with the Hasselblad is that Kievs are so cheap that it's cheaper buying another one than fixing it, if the jam is importrant and it requires a Pro fix.

 

[Helge]

My experience (and therefore my opinion) are hardly influenced by anyone.

I purchased my first MF camera 25 years ago: a Mamiya C220 with a 65mm lens. That camera and lens are still in use today. And with proper care (in other words, with heavy use and an inexpensive CLA every 20 years), it should be good for 100 years. I don’t see why it would last less than a rolleiflex.

Over time I have added many rolleiflexes abd other uBer expensive gear to my arsenal, but I have also overbuilt my Mamiya TLR Kit, which I use regularly next to the rolleiflexes.

The only reason for having indulged into the rolleiflex was pure romanticism. And as a young adult, the hasselblad ownership was born out of a complex.

In hindsight, I could have lived with only a C220 all this time. And no, it’s not heavy, it’s at least like a Rollei 2.8F. And with the grip, it’s very comfortable. And the screen is very bright.

If I had to, I could travel the world with a Mamiya TLR without needing anything else, ever. I’d definitely not do that with a hasselblad, bronica, folders, RB or RZ.

This is only my opinion based on 25 years experience with a mamiya TLR while many other cameras couldn’t go beyond a few months.

I have one too, plus a few Rolleis.
It’s definitely bigger than the 2.8 flex and probably weighs about the same, if not a bit more.

Look, I’m not knocking the system. It’s tremendous, and I’d take it over an 6x6 SLR any day.
But I just know if I will do anything else but photography on a trip, or do photography in crowded, or any grade of rambunctious place, possibly without places to put your stuff down safely, I’ll reach for a folder and a bracket flash, almost all the time.
It’s just so much lighter and carefree.
My current favorite is a 4.5x6 Ikonta.

Normal lenses are not bad at all for head/torso portraiture either.
You can either crop the negative and get up to an actual ≈ 75-80mm lens for a 36x36 mm crop . Or you can just embrace the slight distortion from the common ideal.
Say what you will, I feel 80/75mm 6x6 or 6x4.5 does look slightly different than 50mm on 36x24 geometrically.
Probably something to do with the actual physical size differences of the cameras.

 

[Alex Varas]

There is nothing wrong with a Lubitel, mine is last model 166U and it’s a good performer.
I guess you got bad luck with your sample.