Gold Toner advise

[Neil Genower]

I am wanting to gold tone Vandyke prints. I can buy Moersch gold toner (1 litre ) for £78 ( $105). I am a little confused about how to make it yourself, at least i'm confused about buying gold chloride. Googling it, I can buy Gold (III) chloride 500mg for £127 ( $171). My question is: Is it the gold chloride I need in powder form (AuCl3) and at that price, is it significantly more economical to make it myself rather than buy the ready made Moersch formula? Cheers.

 

[koraks]

Yes, that's the compound you need. Whether its economical you can calculate on the basis of a formula for the toner you want to use. I use Clerc's as outlined on this page: https://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Vandyke/vandyke.html

 

[Neil Genower]

Thank you. I was uncertain that was the correct gold 'stuff' to buy. I get your point re calculation. I'll check out Clerc's recipe. The other recipe is Nelson's, would you preference Clerc's?

 

[koraks]

I've only ever used Clerc's. As I understand, Nelson's is supposed to give warm tones, but Van Dyke is already plenty warm to my taste without any toning.

 

[Neil Genower]

OK, understood. Thank you for your information.

 

[retina_restoration]

Gold toners typically describe the gold component as “gold chloride”, which is a bit of a misnomer - what you’re buying is actually Chloroauric Acid. People have often been confused by this detail, wondering if they’re buying the correct chemical.

I’ve used both Nelson’s gold toner and the simple DIY gold/ammonium thiocyanate toner on a variety of alt prints and they give similar results, but Nelson’s gives a richer warm plum color. Both gold toners shift the orange-brown color of Vandyke to more of a neutral/plum hue.

 

[Neil Genower]

Gold toners typically describe the gold component as “gold chloride”, which is a bit of a misnomer - what you’re buying is actually Chloroauric Acid. People have often been confused by this detail, wondering if they’re buying the correct chemical.

I’ve used both Nelson’s gold toner and the simple DIY gold/ammonium thiocyanate toner on a variety of alt prints and they give similar results, but Nelson’s gives a richer warm plum color. Both gold toners shift the orange-brown color of Vandyke to more of a neutral/plum hue.

Yes, I have been a little confused and at such high prices, I don't want to make a mistake. Thank you.

 

[Neil Genower]

If one makes the Clerc's formula, am I correct in assuming you use the solution undiluted?

 

[koraks]

If one makes the Clerc's formula, am I correct in assuming you use the solution undiluted?

The formula as stated on the page I linked to is for the working strength solution, yes.

 

[retina_restoration]

Gold toners typically describe the gold component as “gold chloride”, which is a bit of a misnomer - what you’re buying is actually Chloroauric Acid. People have often been confused by this detail, wondering if they’re buying the correct chemical.

I’ve used both Nelson’s gold toner and the simple DIY gold/ammonium thiocyanate toner on a variety of alt prints and they give similar results, but Nelson’s gives a richer warm plum color. Both gold toners shift the orange-brown color of Vandyke to more of a neutral/plum hue.

Yes, I have been a little confused and at such high prices, I don't want to make a mistake. Thank you.

You're welcome! Many people are confused about the naming of the Gold compound. Calling it "Gold chloride" is a nickname from decades ago that simply stuck, but it's technically incorrect. At least now you know!

 

[mshchem]

Used to be "gold chloride" was sold in sealed glass ampules. 15 grains per ampule. I have a couple Mallinckrodt ampules, I would estimate to be at least 75 years old. Beautiful stuff. Makes wonderful toners.

 

[koraks]

Used to be "gold chloride" was sold in sealed glass ampules. 15 grains per ampule.

Yeah, I still have one of those here, too. Over here it was 1g, IDK if you guys got 30mg for free or we received 30mg short, or that companies actually measured different weights for different markets, LOL! It really keeps indefinitely that way. Beautiful stuff as you say.

 

[mshchem]

Yeah, I still have one of those here, too. Over here it was 1g, IDK if you guys got 30mg for free or we received 30mg short, or that companies actually measured different weights for different markets, LOL! It really keeps indefinitely that way. Beautiful stuff as you say.
View attachment 414740

Yeah, the more modern ones are 1 gram. In the USA grains nonsense was still common up to WWII. my father was a pharmacist mate, trained to be a medic. Morphine syrettes were 1/4 grain. Aspirin was 5 grains etc. He always said CC instead of mL, somewhat joking.

A different world, he graduated with BSc degree. The first penicillin preparations appeared when he graduated in 1941.He joined the Navy in January of 42.

 

[Neil Genower]

Nice story of your father, mshchem. It's pretty pricey now. £277 per gram ( $372)

 

[mshchem]

Nice story of your father, mshchem. It's pretty pricey now. £277 per gram ( $372)

I have a couple old British Sovereign gold coins, nominally a £1 coin. Circulated prior to the insanity of WWI. A sovereign has a wee bit less than 1/4 ozt, (7.32 grams) of gold. Melt value over $1000 USD.

The Fiat money thing is working out great for all of us

 

[tykos]

returning to toners: is the gold toner supposed to be used one shot or not?

 

[koraks]

This depends on the toner you use. I use Clerc's thiourea gold toner and I use it one shot, and only use as much toner as I need to tone a single print.

 

[tykos]

thank you, i supposed so

 

[retina_restoration]

I use a Gold/thiocyanate toner and it is intended to be used once and discarded. I mix only 100ml to tone a single print (in a flat-bottomed tray), so the volume of toner I use is very small = very economical.

 

[miha]

returning to toners: is the gold toner supposed to be used one shot or not?

The commercial gol toners (what is left of them) can be used multiple times until exhaustion

 

[tykos]

The commercial gol toners (what is left of them) can be used multiple times until exhaustion

ok, this is interesting, because i find that moersch toner costs slightly less than pure chemicals

 

[koraks]

ok, this is interesting, because i find that moersch toner costs slightly less than pure chemicals

You'd have to check with Moersch if the toner can indeed be reused. On the bottle it says that it's a thiourea-gold toner, and the effects he shows on the website suggest it works similarly to the Cerc's toner many of us make ourselves. If it's the same formula, then it cannot be reused like e.g. the old Kodak GP-1 toner, which was a different kind of formula.

 

[tykos]

right. i'll ask them

 

[xkaes]

Used to be "gold chloride" was sold in sealed glass ampules. 15 grains per ampule. I have a couple Mallinckrodt ampules, I would estimate to be at least 75 years old. Beautiful stuff. Makes wonderful toners.

That's what I have as well. They are 15 grains = 1gr. I don't know what the going rate it, but I mix them into a 1% solution for use -- 1 ampule mixed with 100ml of water. You can buy it in 1gm ampules or as a 1% solution of 100 ml. I have no idea which is less expensive. I'd advise against trying to mix less than 1gr, but mixing it yourself is E-Z, P-Z.