Glass bottles / beer growlers for storing chemistry

Hilo · Dec 21, 2023

Forgive me if someone already posted about this:

There was a time I was only getting 5 liter cans with developer and I used these brown glass 1 liter bottles with Acu Vin tops to keep them airtight. The developer stayed as fresh as can be, up to 3 or 4 months for sure. I used large etiquettes to date them. See attached picture.

The fixer, I always divided in 5 plastic fix bottles. This never went bad.

For a couple of years now, I have gone back to buying smaller quantities because I am printing less. When I pick up printing a lot again, I will go back to the Vacu Vin tops and the brown bottles.

The professional b/w printer who's idea this was, a very long time ago, also came up with the idea to free washed film on the reels from water by using a plastic letuce dryer. The one you turn fast . . .

koraks · Dec 21, 2023

The vacu-vin thing is a bit of a ruse. Firstly, it doesn't really do a very good vacuum. At best, you might get 70-75% of the air out, initially. The thing is, the vacuum doesn't hold very well and drops quickly. This means that after a day or so, you're left with about half the air in there that would be there if you had just put a cap on the bottle and nothing else.

Yes, a vacu-vin will be significantly better than leaving the bottle open. It'll even do better in the short run than simply capping the bottle with lots of air on top of the contents. But it's absolutely inferior to methods that truly evacuate air from the bottle (such as filling it to the brim, adding marbles, using pliable bottles/bags to squeeze out air) followed by hermetically sealing.

I know about the positive experiences with this system, and I guess it will sort of work for short-term storage of a developer that's in active use, and for chemistry that's not very prone to oxidization. For storage up to a couple of months, this is really guaranteed to degrade the developer, using up the antioxidant (usually sulfite, turning into sulfate, dropping the pH and altering developer characteristics) and ultimately oxidizing the developer itself. I knew a photographer who liked this system for storing his RA4 developer in-between sessions. I guess it worked, but the main 'trick' here is that the kind of developer he was using, is absolutely loaded with hydroxylamine which protects the developer as long as it lasts - which isn't very long in this setup. But since he replenished it at every session or so, everything 'sort of' worked out, if not for the fact that he still had to replace the developer once in a while because "you know, it goes bad and stuff anyway". Well, in my experience, properly stored it takes ages to go bad - just not in a vacu-vin setup.

It's a neat idea, and it has some merit, but its effectiveness mustn't be overstated.

RalphLambrecht · Dec 21, 2023

Maris said:
To add an extra note of pessimism I don't admit any glass containers to my darkroom: plastics only. Glass tends to be heavy, slippery when wet with water or (worse!) with developer, and a drop and shatter event is always a total spill with chemistry and lots of sharp edges to clean up.

plastic pop or soda bottles are ideal, because of the way they are manufactured. Their walls have several layers, designed to keep the fizz in. That helps us to keep the oxygen out. Leave the labels on to keep the light out or, better yet, protect them with a paper sleeve and hide the fact that they were food containers once.

chuckroast · Dec 21, 2023

RalphLambrecht said:
plastic pop or soda bottles are ideal, because of the way they are manufactured. Their walls have several layers, designed to keep the fizz in. That helps us to keep the oxygen out. Leave the labels on to keep the light out or, better yet, protect them with a paper sleeve and hide the fact that they were food containers once.

I believe "keeping the fizz in" was the formal term I learned back in my first year Chemistry courses

Hilo · Dec 21, 2023

koraks said:
It's a neat idea, and it has some merit, but its effectiveness mustn't be overstated.

This I agree with! It just worked for me when I needed to print a lot over three, four months. The developer remained in fine condition. After that I went back to buying small 1 liter quantities . . .

Kino · Dec 21, 2023

If someone would just pre-package small nitrogen canisters (like the CO2 cartridges) and sell them with a dispenser, that would be ideal for spritzing into the tops of chemistry bottles.

Joel_L · Dec 21, 2023

I have been using these in 500mL and 1 L and have been very pleased with them.

Paul Howell · Dec 21, 2023

The Air Force and I suspect that the DOD in general changed from glass to photo grad plastic bottles, we had few remaining but could only order plastic, I assume it out of safety concerns. When I taught at the local Community College in the late 80s and early 90s there were only plastic bottles. How I have managed to go 60 years without dropping one is beyond me.

Kino · Dec 21, 2023

The growlers are quite slippery, so I don't handle them outside of the sink without a towel reserved for just this purpose.

jk0592 · Dec 21, 2023

As i get older and older, I am afraid of dropping glass containers and their shattering on the floor of the darkroom. So I reverted to StopLoss bags for storing all liquids chemicals.

MattKing · Dec 21, 2023

Kino said:
The growlers are quite slippery, so I don't handle them outside of the sink without a towel reserved for just this purpose.

That is why I recommend the growlers with the accessory finger grip
I've never dropped a chemical bottle, but I recently dropped a 1 litre glass kalamata olive bottle in the kitchen, and the response from my wife certainly reinforced my desire to always handle glass carefully! ,

Sirius Glass · Dec 21, 2023

MattKing said:
That is why I recommend the growlers with the accessory finger grip
I've never dropped a chemical bottle, but I recently dropped a 1 litre glass kalamata olive bottle in the kitchen, and the response from my wife certainly reinforced my desire to always handle glass carefully! ,

Also never hold a glass bottle or jar by the lid alone because if the lid is not completely tight there will be a mess to clean up. Even a tightened lid can let go.

kl122002 · Dec 24, 2023

Long ago I was using glassware as well. They were from drugs store and were mainly for lab use. 50ml , 250ml 500ml and 1L were excellent and came in to handly. I like these labwares and they did better than any food containers.

My lab scale is getting small and then I discarded many of the good bottles. The only one I am still having is from Scott (Corning) amber 1L bottle . While others I am using the plastic bottles from Jobo.

MTGseattle · Nov 3, 2024

I'm very confused by these "Ball" amber jars. the Ball website doesn't have them, and I have no idea if they were only produced for a year or 2, but they are available here and there.

Robot or human?

If one wants to use glass, there is a newer plastic one-piece lid available for the canning jars as well.

MTGseattle · Nov 3, 2024

Hmm, that link may be wonky.

MattKing · Nov 3, 2024

You don't want metal lids like that.
But thrift store canning jars plus these might do the job:
https://www.amazon.ca/Silicone-Anti...4c05e793068a2529e4589631fd8&gad_source=1&th=1

loccdor · Nov 3, 2024

I have had glass bottles and glasses break before when filling with hot liquid. Any microfractures present from the inevitable occasional bumps can actualize into full-fledged fractures when a sudden temperature difference occurs. In fact, that's a well known technique for cutting glass - you make a shallow score, and then you apply heat to it with a torch, and then you dunk it in cold water. The glass usually breaks cleanly on your score line.

I prefer plastic for photo chemicals. You can squeeze air out of normal plastic bottles for a while, or you can get the plastic bag bottles like wine bags or StopLossBags, and you reduce the biggest long-term killer of chemicals, oxidization.

I store all chemicals in a large opaque plastic box so it doesn't make any difference if the containers themselves are opaque or not.

Speaking of 1 gallon growlers, I've got three 5-gallon glass carboys used for winemaking or water storage. Their glass is very thick and if you dropped them on a relatively soft floor they wouldn't break. Rather laborious to lift up to your sink, but it can be done... though they're usually drained via siphon.

gordrob · Nov 3, 2024

loccdor said:
Speaking of 1 gallon growlers, I've got three 5-gallon glass carboys used for winemaking or water storage. Their glass is very thick and if you dropped them on a relatively soft floor they wouldn't break. Rather laborious to lift up to your sink, but it can be done... though they're usually drained via siphon.

Been there and done that. After rinsing some wine from the carboy it slipped from my grip and hit the cement floor in the darkroom. It literally exploded with glass shards all over the place. Some of the pieces were like daggers and really sharp. I have no idea how I wasn't hit by some of the flying debris.

Romanko · Nov 3, 2024

MTGseattle said:
I'm very confused by these "Ball" amber jars.

I would not recommend them. The lids corrode very quickly even without contact with (corrosive) photographic chemistry.

Invest in proper laboratory glass. It's more expensive but they will last a very long time. Lids are often sold separately and you can easily get a replacement. Depending of what you do wide-mouth jars might not be necessary (but they are convenient). Initially, I used common brown glass bottles in which chemistry is sold by Sigma Aldrich and alike. They were discarded by the university I worked at and were in ample supply.

dpurdy · Nov 3, 2024

I am a home-brew beer brewer. I bottle my beer. In the beginning I didn't want to buy beer bottles so I tried using ball jars with silicon seals and plastic lids. I also tried growlers. I tried all kinds of bottles from glass whiskey to fruit juice bottles and I could never get them to hold carbonation.. which is to say keep oxygen out. I finally acquired brown glasses beer bottles and caps and a capper and my problems went away. If you wanted to store chems in brown beer bottles you would need bottle caps... cheap, and a capper, also cheap. Then you could divide your developer in smaller sizes and keep them oxygen free. There is no carbonation to worry about so you could fill them to the brim. If you open one and take only part out you can easily recap it.. even with the first already used cap. If you are concerned with getting all the oxygen out you could fill the half empty bottle with small glass marbles or aquarium type glass beads.

MattKing · Nov 3, 2024

dpurdy said:
I could never get them to hold carbonation.. which is to say keep oxygen out.

Having once seen the results of my Dad bottling home brewed beer just a little bit too soon - BANG! - I'm not sure that the same issues arise.
Most darkroom chemicals aren't pressurized by anything like carbonation. So the mechanisms involved in keeping oxygen out are, I would suggest, different than keeping pressure/carbonization in.
That being said, the growlers that I have others fill with fresh brewed beer seem to do a great job holding the pressure that arises.
Of course, fresh beer doesn't usually have much longevity around here when I treat myself with some.

Patrick Robert James · Nov 3, 2024

I’ve taken to using kombucha bottles, though they are only 500ml. Perfect for developers. They are also cheaper than buying bottles by themselves.

MTGseattle · Nov 4, 2024

Romanko said:
I would not recommend them. The lids corrode very quickly even without contact with (corrosive) photographic chemistry.

Invest in proper laboratory glass. It's more expensive but they will last a very long time. Lids are often sold separately and you can easily get a replacement. Depending of what you do wide-mouth jars might not be necessary (but they are convenient). Initially, I used common brown glass bottles in which chemistry is sold by Sigma Aldrich and alike. They were discarded by the university I worked at and were in ample supply.

For sure.

Ball and others have plastic 1-piece lids for mason jars now. I only added the amber ones to the thread because amber glass came up.

I am fortunate to live in an area with a large university that also operates its own surplus store. There is a fairly constant inventory of laboratory glassware on the shelf there.

I got a couple of these for $3 each;

Fisherbrand Reusable Glass Media Bottles with Cap | Fisher Scientific

www.fishersci.com

Nokton48 · Nov 4, 2024

I bought new brown glass bottles in 1000ml, 2000ml, and 4000ml sizes from Photographer's Formulary.

Randy Stewart · Dec 2, 2024

lukajaku said:
As I know photography chemistry is light sensitive, so is it true that simple amber / reagent amber glass bottles are way better for storing chemistry? Or it depends on the place where that bottle will be stored?

So, how do you know that photochemistry is light sensitive? Most developers are sensitive to oxygen. All are sensitive to contamination. It is sensitive to heat. Chemistry is conventionally retailed in non-amber, plastic containers. 75 years ago, it was common practice to store it in reagent glass bottles, which were commonly amber. If you think you "know", ask yourself where learned that fact. It was probably in some social media like YouTube, where facts about photo-chemistry go to die.

Glass bottles / beer growlers for storing chemistry

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Fisherbrand Reusable Glass Media Bottles with Cap | Fisher Scientific

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Glass bottles / beer growlers for storing chemistry

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