Glass bottles / beer growlers for storing chemistry

lukajaku · Dec 17, 2023

Hello,

I want to ask about glass bottles for storing chemistry. Is it very important that glass bottle or beer growler would be amber? Or it doesn't matter for storing chemistry if glass bottle or beer growler is clear? I find amber beer growlers 10 x more expensive than clear ones so maybe anyone who has used clear ones for storing chemistry could share their opinion?

I also found reagent amber bottles which can be used for storing light-sensitive chemistry. As I know photography chemistry is light sensitive, so is it true that simple amber / reagent amber glass bottles are way better for storing chemistry? Or it depends on the place where that bottle will be stored? Lets say that I will store bottle filled with chemistry in complete dark for most of the time and I would only expose it to light for a short time when I need to use chemistry. What are your thoughts about it?

By the way, I wish you merry upcoming Christmas!

Rrrgcy · Dec 17, 2023

The latter and store in dark. That’s one dirty Gallo bottle. Amateur newer guy here. I have film stuff in bad temp conditions. Xtol replenished in glass brown bottles, filled, in a closed cardboard box. And fixer etc in clear plastic crushable jugs. In a cardboard box. But located in a garage which temps approach 95 degrees Fahrenheit and various fluctuations. Despite, all work fine after six months (by when it’s used up to make a new batch - oh, only once had my fixer turn brown orange). I’d suspect whatever bottle you use, don’t overthink, just box it from light, eliminate air inside, but maintain a cool(er) temp.

lukajaku · Dec 17, 2023

Rrrgcy said:
The latter and store in dark. That’s one dirty Gallo bottle. Amateur newer guy here. I have film stuff in bad temp conditions. Xtol replenished in glass brown bottles, filled, in a closed cardboard box. And fixer etc in clear plastic crushable jugs. In a cardboard box. But located in a garage which temps approach 95 degrees Fahrenheit and various fluctuations. Despite, all work fine after six months (by when it’s used up to make a new batch - oh, only once had my fixer turn brown orange). I’d suspect whatever bottle you use, don’t overthink, just box it from light, eliminate air inside, but maintain a cool(er) temp.

Thank you for reply!

MattKing · Dec 17, 2023

Most of the photo chemicals aren't light sensitive, so the amber glass is only important for the small number of exceptions, and with respect to those, only if you don't have a cupboard to store them in.
I like and recommend using the growler bottles to store photo chemicals because of their robust construction, the good caps that fit on them and the additional handles on them.
IMHO they are worth buying new and empty - no concerns about first cleaning out beer residue. That being said, they are relatively easy to thoroughly clean - assuming they haven't been previously used to store harsh cleaning chemicals or something similar.
I'll repeat the usual cautions about being sure to keep them away from anyone who might mistakenly think they contain beer or other beverages - especially if you have a teenager!
One minor caution: when full, a 2 litre/quart bottle is fairly heavy.

lukajaku · Dec 17, 2023

MattKing said:
Most of the photo chemicals aren't light sensitive, so the amber glass is only important for the small number of exceptions, and with respect to those, only if you don't have a cupboard to store them in.
I like and recommend using the growler bottles to store photo chemicals because of their robust construction, the good caps that fit on them and the additional handles on them.
IMHO they are worth buying new and empty - no concerns about first cleaning out beer residue. That being said, they are relatively easy to thoroughly clean - assuming they haven't been previously used to store harsh cleaning chemicals or something similar.
I'll repeat the usual cautions about being sure to keep them away from anyone who might mistakenly think they contain beer or other beverages - especially if you have a teenager!
One minor caution: when full, a 2 litre/quart bottle is fairly heavy.

As always, thank you, Matt!

chuckroast · Dec 17, 2023

lukajaku said:
Hello,

I want to ask about glass bottles for storing chemistry. Is it very important that glass bottle or beer growler would be amber? Or it doesn't matter for storing chemistry if glass bottle or beer growler is clear? I find amber beer growlers 10 x more expensive than clear ones so maybe anyone who has used clear ones for storing chemistry could share their opinion?

I also found reagent amber bottles which can be used for storing light-sensitive chemistry. As I know photography chemistry is light sensitive, so is it true that simple amber / reagent amber glass bottles are way better for storing chemistry? Or it depends on the place where that bottle will be stored? Lets say that I will store bottle filled with chemistry in complete dark for most of the time and I would only expose it to light for a short time when I need to use chemistry. What are your thoughts about it?

By the way, I wish you merry upcoming Christmas!

The growlers are "free" if you buy them full of beer

I use them all the time. My local brewer even sells me new ones at reasonable price since I explained why I wanted a few of them. I do replace the caps with polycone style replacement for a better seal.

Brown is only relevant for light sensitive chemistry. However, I like the brown Boston style bottles and growlers because of their durability, hence everything I have in the darkroom is brown.

Paul Howell · Dec 17, 2023

I have brown glass jugs in 1/2 and gallon size, date back to the 60s which I use for all my chemistry only because I have them. The Air Force tested all our gear, the standard issue by the 70s was Kodak plastic containers up to 10 gallon size and plastic photo jugs in the gallon size. For that matter 2 liter plastic soda bottles should work as well, air tight as designed not to let CO2 pass through the walls. What I like about my old jugs are when washed properly I know there is no left over residue.

chuckroast · Dec 17, 2023

Paul Howell said:
I have brown glass jugs in 1/2 and gallon size, date back to the 60s which I use for all my chemistry only because I have them. The Air Force tested all our gear, the standard issue by the 70s was Kodak plastic containers up to 10 gallon size and plastic photo jugs in the gallon size. For that matter 2 liter plastic soda bottles should work as well, air tight as designed not to let CO2 pass through the walls. What I like about my old jugs are when washed properly I know there is no left over residue.

The problem with plastic is that, unless specifically formulated otherwise, plastic is permeable to air over time. If your volume of use is such that nothing sits in a plastic jug for very long, it's fine, but in most low volume darkrooms, using plastic for active chemistry like developers is a bad idea and will lead to oxidation.

As I said, there are plastics that do not suffer from this, but your garden variety plastic jug typically is air permeable.

Rayt · Dec 17, 2023

I used Grolsch empties for B/W fixer and developers. Good and free.

MattKing · Dec 17, 2023

When I was 11 years young, my father started me up with darkroom work by supplying me with a bunch of things, including some clear glass 1/2 imperial gallon glass jugs that were similar to growlers.
They were really heavy!
I've since come to learn that they may have once included strong acids.
I wonder if they had been used to supply the Kodachrome line at the Kodak lab where my father was Customer Service manager - I never asked him.

koraks · Dec 17, 2023

For long term storage of chemistry that's sensitive to oxidation I use clear glass and store in the dark. It doesn't hurt to take the bottle out in daylight once in a while. Just store it in the dark the rest of the time. Clear glass I prefer because it's easier to judge the color of the contents and spot any contamination of the bottle.

For short term storage and storage of less sensitive stuff I often use PET soda bottles. I also use PET for storage of my working stock RA4 developer because it's easy to squeeze out any air, and the developer is replenished regularly so it doesn't oxidize as badly anyway.

lukajaku · Dec 17, 2023

Thank you for replies everyone. I am very happy that you share your opinion.

May I ask what are your thoughts on reagent amber glass bottles when storing chemistry for longer term? They are even more expensive than amber glass growlers but do you believe that they provide better chemical resistance than amber glass growlers? Has anyone used them?

chuckroast · Dec 17, 2023

lukajaku said:
Thank you for replies everyone. I am very happy that you share your opinion.

May I ask what are your thoughts on reagent amber glass bottles when storing chemistry for longer term? They are even more expensive than amber glass growlers but do you believe that they provide better chemical resistance than amber glass growlers? Has anyone used them?

These are likely overkill and unnecessary for ordinary darkroom work.

koraks · Dec 17, 2023

lukajaku said:
May I ask what are your thoughts on reagent amber glass bottles when storing chemistry for longer term? They are even more expensive than amber glass growlers but do you believe that they provide better chemical resistance than amber glass growlers?

The main concern with glass bottles is really the cap. Otherwise, glass is pretty much glass, unless you start heating it up etc. I can imagine those 'reagent' bottles come with a really nicely fitting cap that's (mostly) impermeable to gases. A regular bottle with a tightly fitting cap will perform the same. I just buy generic clear glass bottles in various sizes with regular white plastic caps. My C41 color developer stays fine in there for a year or two, and perhaps even longer. That's as perfect as it needs to be, IMO.

chuckroast · Dec 17, 2023

koraks said:
The main concern with glass bottles is really the cap. Otherwise, glass is pretty much glass, unless you start heating it up etc. I can imagine those 'reagent' bottles come with a really nicely fitting cap that's (mostly) impermeable to gases. A regular bottle with a tightly fitting cap will perform the same. I just buy generic clear glass bottles in various sizes with regular white plastic caps. My C41 color developer stays fine in there for a year or two, and perhaps even longer. That's as perfect as it needs to be, IMO.

I have found that aftermarket "polycone" style caps seal very well. They are basically a plastic cap with an inverted soft plastic cone inside to provide positive sealing. These also have the advantage of the innards coming apart for a thorough cleaning.

Kino · Dec 17, 2023

I buy Kombucha Brown Growlers because they have good sealing lids and come in a good size. They cost a bit, but are durable and seal quite well.
Might not need the brown color for most chemistry, but it does not hurt.

Pardon Our Interruption...

Paul Howell · Dec 17, 2023

chuckroast said:
The problem with plastic is that, unless specifically formulated otherwise, plastic is permeable to air over time. If your volume of use is such that nothing sits in a plastic jug for very long, it's fine, but in most low volume darkrooms, using plastic for active chemistry like developers is a bad idea and will lead to oxidation.

As I said, there are plastics that do not suffer from this, but your garden variety plastic jug typically is air permeable.

What about soft drink and sparking water bottles? As I understand it Polyethylene terephthalate is not permeable to air. But with time, how many years for Polyethylene terephthalate bottle to degrade? Not that it is issue for me, I use my brown glass bottles, with all the moves I've made time storage when I was working overseas, then more moves, have not broken or lost any. Currently I'm using Rodinal and HC 110 so I don't have developer to store.

peoplemerge · Dec 17, 2023

Wine bags. I buy new and discard after one use. Or buy a box of wine, drink the wine and wash / reuse the bag, if you are ok risking contaminants.

Why? Many photochemicals, specifically developers, are more sensitive to oxidization being exposed to air than light. Wine bags allow you to completely remove the air, and not reintroduce any to use some solution at a time.

I do use glass bottles for fixer, stop, and some others. Amber I use for alt process emulsion making - silver nitrate, collodion. Are there other light sensitive chemicals I’m really missing?

Helinophoto · Dec 18, 2023

The only glass I use is for the HC-110 and the Rodinal, all the rest goes into used and rinsed Coca-Cola bottles (fixer, for example).
My darkroom chemicals usually goes into the cans we buy windshield-cleaner liquid here, because these chemical mixes are usually more than one liter. The cans here take up to 4L (1 gallon) and have a nice, big opening, in addition to being made to contain some chemical mix, easy to write on too.

Typically this:

With glass, I always fear they will break, either by themselves, or from me screwing the top on too tight (I broke one bottle, because it was too full of HC-110 and the screw-on cork created so much pressure inside the bottle that it broke), or drop the thing.

koraks · Dec 18, 2023

Helinophoto said:
With glass, I always fear they will break, either by themselves, or from be screwing the top on too tight

Glass spontaneously breaking? How...? And if you screw a cap onto a glass bottle, you'd have to be (1) very strong and (2) extremely clumsy to do any damage, and the damage will be to the cap not the bottle.

Helinophoto · Dec 18, 2023

koraks said:
Glass spontaneously breaking? How...? And if you screw a cap onto a glass bottle, you'd have to be (1) very strong and (2) extremely clumsy to do any damage, and the damage will be to the cap not the bottle.

Not sure, it was a brown medicine bottle.
Topped it off with HC-110 to the brim (to the point where some overflowed).

Simply screwed the top of it in place (not that much force was put on it) and the bottom fell off, perhaps I am stronger than I think!

Maybe it was just a weak bottle, or maybe the hydraulic pressure simply was too much, there was no air in it to compress, no idea, but it broke and ever since I have been looking at the others with a suspicious eye.

koraks · Dec 18, 2023

Probably a bottle that had dropped earlier and that already had stress cracks in it. Or maybe a manufacturing error. But glass bottles don't just pop apart, and it takes a lot of hydraulic pressure for this to happen.

If glass bottles were so unreliable, I'm sure supermarkets would hand out safety glasses to the shopping public.

Helinophoto · Dec 18, 2023

Yeah, the strange thing is that it was bought in a pharmacy, so it wasn't cheap, I expected more (the glass was surprisingly thin though)

koraks · Dec 18, 2023

Well, goes to show that sometimes, the cheap supermarket variety is actually a perfectly reasonable choice!

When it comes to glassware, I do see the point of borosilicate lab glass for beakers etc. because those tend to be subject to thermal cycling a lot. But for storing chemistry, plain consumer-grade glass is just fine. And your approach of using PET, HDPE etc. for fixer and other non-critical stuff is evidently fine, too!

lukajaku · Dec 18, 2023

I've contacted Amazon seller who sells glass growlers and asked him what is his opinion about storing photography chemistry in one of these bottles. Also I explained that I'm trying to find the main differences between glass growlers and reagent glass bottles in terms of chemistry resistance. He replied: "I wouldn’t trust them to something as reactive. The lids will most likely be the problem". Later I've noticed that some reagent glass bottles (and plastic bottles) have a plastic protection on the bottle neck which is perfectly visible when the lid is removed. After I've noticed it I made a presumption that this additional plastic material on bottle neck which connects with lid/cap of the bottle might be the reason for better air sealing. Do you think this presumption is not right?

https://www.bing.com/images/search?...8&selectedIndex=0&itb=0&ajaxhist=0&ajaxserp=0 (please notice bottle in the middle for example).

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