Gender bias in photography analyzed (by some interesting empirical data) and an essay

[dwross]

Thanks I thought it failed miserably.

Nope. You nailed it. Perfect. Humor is a very good thing. Thank you for the reminder.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Let's just say I run into more successful female photographers than male ones, even in this neck of the woods, which also happens to be the
wealthiest part of the country. And I see ZERO evidence of them being discriminated against in high level art positions, like museum curatorial
roles. Maybe Hollywood is a bit different, because it's basically corporate.

+1

 

[blansky]

I'd just say that the OP is correct in a lot of ways and it's sort of silly to pretend that through the years there hasn't been bias and discrimination against women, and minorities in this country. In every avenue. For a lot of different reasons. And not all being mean spirited, although it could be interpreted that way. The US in the 50s was in some ways what people are fighting against in Saudi Arabia in matters of women's rights and opportunities. Not to the same degree but still. Watch some old movies from the 30s-50s and you can cringe at how women were treated. And that's nothing to how blacks were treated arguably into the 70s and beyond.

BUT this is a discussion forum and being a passionate advocate or outspoken critic, often doesn't sit well, as the OP discovered.

When I mentioned access, the difference between 50 years ago until today, for women and minorities is a constant evolution that in some cases started with a revolution.

But it's getting better and will continue to do so.

And shining a light on it is not always a bad thing.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

But it's getting better and will continue to do so.

One of the reasons for so many negative comments was that the two videos fail to recognize this fact. To their writers nothing has changed in decades.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Then there was "affirmative action" when being male and white was grounds for being refused a job, even if you were the only one actually
qualified. It works both ways. But I'm not on this forum to discuss social ills. I just know too many professional writers and even media documentaries that are just trying to get an ear by saying something outlandish and politically correct to predictably stir up a certain audience. And it's predictably BS. That's how THEY make a living as writers. One spin after another. Being a photographer period in Saudi
Arabia is a dicey proposition. I assume most of us are not referring to that. Around here people hire pro photographers due to either their
track record or ability to competitively perform a given task. I say pro reservedly, cause every monkey with a point n shoot digi device these days thinks he a photographer. But at competent levels, women compete just as well. I see ZERO bias related to gender in professional still photography, and certainly not in the so-called fine arts aspect either. Whether it might transpire in certain corporate
departments is hypothetically possible; but I know for a fact it doesn't here in techie land, where the big bucks are. Women hold a lot of
they key positions departmentally, as art directors etc. I've already excluded Hollywood - they're never chauvinistic there, are they? Just
ask Bill Cosby.

 

[CatLABS]

...just trying to get an ear by saying something outlandish and politically correct...

How can saying something politically correct be cause for inciting any reaction? Equating outladish and politically correct might suggest you see the latter as an outlandish thing?

...I see ZERO bias related to gender in professional still photography

You might need to get your vision checked. Gender bias is present in all walks of life. Photography is not special. Just ask Dr. Huxtable.

 

[eddie]

I don't see why Bill Cosby/Dr. Huxtable is being brought up. Gender bias and (alleged) rape are two completely different things.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Discrimination occurs among the cats on my porch. That's why people who behave in a similar manner are termed catty. It exists in every office, every corporation, every walk of life. In other words, women discriminate against women too. Peck orders aren't fair and I don't support them; but reducing this subject to a simplistic stereotype is a waste of time. I'm out.

 

[blansky]

Then there was "affirmative action" when being male and white was grounds for being refused a job, even if you were the only one actually
qualified. It works both ways. But I'm not on this forum to discuss social ills. I just know too many professional writers and even media documentaries that are just trying to get an ear by saying something outlandish and politically correct to predictably stir up a certain audience. And it's predictably BS. That's how THEY make a living as writers. One spin after another. Being a photographer period in Saudi
Arabia is a dicey proposition. I assume most of us are not referring to that. Around here people hire pro photographers due to either their
track record or ability to competitively perform a given task. I say pro reservedly, cause every monkey with a point n shoot digi device these days thinks he a photographer. But at competent levels, women compete just as well. I see ZERO bias related to gender in professional still photography, and certainly not in the so-called fine arts aspect either. Whether it might transpire in certain corporate
departments is hypothetically possible; but I know for a fact it doesn't here in techie land, where the big bucks are. Women hold a lot of
they key positions departmentally, as art directors etc. I've already excluded Hollywood - they're never chauvinistic there, are they? Just
ask Bill Cosby.

I love it when your inner redneck comes out.

And it doesn't have very far to travel.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Yeah, well everyone appears to be redneck when someone's "Inner Hippie" comes out.

 

[CatLABS]

Yeah, well everyone appears to be redneck when someone's "Inner Hippie" comes out.

No. Only rednecks.

 

[Old-N-Feeble]

deleted... might not have been funny to some

 

[pbromaghin]

Bias in Hollywood? Say it ain't so, Joe:

Dead Link Removed

 

[blansky]

Bias in tech...Silicon Valley

http://fusion.net/story/152387/this-study-suggests-silicon-valley-really-is-biased-against-women/

http://www.cnet.com/news/how-to-solve-silicon-valleys-diversity-challenges-google-has-ideas/

 

[DREW WILEY]

Sorry if these inside jokes are a bit unintelligible to outsiders. Here in the Bay Area we have are own stereotypes about specific locations.
The North Bay aka Wine Country, besides boutique winery barons, gets stereotyped for its residual 60's and 70's counterculture. A favorite
and largely believable movie would be Homegrown, with Billy Bob Thornton playing a bungling pot farmer. But's that's more Mendocino than
Sonoma. And as most know by now, I have no problem bashing anything related to Silicon Valley. I'd prefer if it were orchards again.

 

[BrianShaw]

I'm glad that I'm biting my tongue. The pain makes this thread tolerable.

 

[pbromaghin]

Bias in tech...Silicon Valley

http://fusion.net/story/152387/this-study-suggests-silicon-valley-really-is-biased-against-women/

http://www.cnet.com/news/how-to-solve-silicon-valleys-diversity-challenges-google-has-ideas/

Having been in healthcare for the last 10 years with the previous 20 being about evenly split between Oil & Energy and Technology, I would say that chart is very accurate.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Never mind our jokes about LA. But sociologically, Calif is now more divided between coastal versus inland rather than north versus south. Still ...

 

[DREW WILEY]

Health care, yeah. No doubt about it. It's a blatantly hierarchical field where even routine discrimination laws get ignored. But this is a photography forum. Can't talk about energy much; but our big local player is Chevron and they've certainly paid women big bucks, even if the number of positions in R&D are less. Biotech pays women quite well, and I also know women in top art dept positions in major Silicon Valley firms. I speaking of friends or even family members, so with a bit of immediate insight.

 

[CatLABS]

Health care, yeah. No doubt about it. It's a blatantly hierarchical field where even routine discrimination laws get ignored. But this is a photography forum. Can't talk about energy much; but our big local player is Chevron and they've certainly paid women big bucks, even if the number of positions in R&D are less. Biotech pays women quite well, and I also know women in top art dept positions in major Silicon Valley firms. I speaking of friends or even family members, so with a bit of immediate insight.

are you trying to say there is no gender wage gap because you have female family members who are "well paid despite being female"?

 

[DREW WILEY]

Yep. It has nothing to do with "despite". In many corporations around here there is neither despite nor bias. If anything the opposite. Otherwise, in certain fields, opportunity and pay scale might have more to do with union affiliation than gender or anything else. Nor does race seem to factor provided educational level is commensurate. In fact, if any kind of govt employment is involved, being male and white
puts you at a distinct disadvantage. Poop and cry and do all your usual politically correct whatever. But that's a FACT in this state and has been for several decades, and this is the most populous and wealthy state in the country, and allegedly the most progressive one. Unfairness exists no matter how you slice the pie, and always will. Social engineering only goes so far one direction before it steps on
someone else's toes the other direction. And being a big state, real-world practices can differ dramatically from region to region, county to county. Our midwest begins at the crest of our Coast Range, right where the fog stops. But this side of the divide has its fair share of
hypocrisy and unfairness too. Want an unfair town? Try Wash DC. Careers routinely come and go with petty one-upmanship there. Gosh,
sounds like some of you folks live in a pretend world. My wife makes three times the pay rate I do, and I've got a pretty good job. But that's because she has three advanced degrees while I only have one. Gender has zero to do with it.

 

[blansky]

Health care, yeah. No doubt about it. It's a blatantly hierarchical field where even routine discrimination laws get ignored. But this is a photography forum. Can't talk about energy much; but our big local player is Chevron and they've certainly paid women big bucks, even if the number of positions in R&D are less. Biotech pays women quite well, and I also know women in top art dept positions in major Silicon Valley firms. I speaking of friends or even family members, so with a bit of immediate insight.

Your "insights" are always interesting.

 

[blansky]

Yep. It has nothing to do with "despite". In many corporations around here there is neither despite nor bias. If anything the opposite. Otherwise, in certain fields, opportunity and pay scale might have more to do with union affiliation than gender or anything else. Nor does race seem to factor provided educational level is commensurate. In fact, if any kind of govt employment is involved, being male and white
puts you at a distinct disadvantage. Poop and cry and do all your usual politically correct whatever. But that's a FACT in this state and has been for several decades, and this is the most populous and wealthy state in the country, and allegedly the most progressive one. Unfairness exists no matter how you slice the pie, and always will. Social engineering only goes so far one direction before it steps on
someone else's toes the other direction. And being a big state, real-world practices can differ dramatically from region to region, county to county. Our midwest begins at the crest of our Coast Range, right where the fog stops. But this side of the divide has its fair share of
hypocrisy and unfairness too. Want an unfair town? Try Wash DC. Careers routinely come and go with petty one-upmanship there. Gosh,
sounds like some of you folks live in a pretend world. My wife makes three times the pay rate I do, and I've got a pretty good job. But that's because she has three advanced degrees while I only have one. Gender has zero to do with it.

Yes, but the original point was not what was happening in California, which I agree is the most progressive state. It's what is and was happening throughout the country, and stating anecdotal examples is not really very representative either.

But, bottom line is, it's getting better.

 

[blansky]

Isn't New Jersey the wealthiest state?

California is the world's 8th largest economy in 2014. And the largest in the US.

This is obviously largely due to the Silicon Valley in computing and the Central Valley in agriculture.

 

[DREW WILEY]

It was the biggest well before Silicon Valley. Yeah, Ag, but also oil; most people forget about that, but it's huge too. Formerly, timber, mining,
you name it. As for wealth, just look at where the great number of those 1% live. It ain't Manhattan. I sure ain't Noi Joisey. But frankly, the
most discriminatory Good Ole Boy corporate structures I've ever personally seen were based in "liberal" New England states. I certain cases who was expected to walk behind whom was an exact indication of rank, just as it was with "flavor", of which there was very little. But the facts are apparent enough to anyone who lives here, instead of surfing web propaganda. And even then it ain't always what it seems. For example, the very high population of minorities here at the University has very little to do with social engineering. Rather, it's just an accident of economics. They charge foreign students a vastly higher tuition, so that whom they court. It's all about the money. Same reason the football coach makes four times as much as a Nobel laureate. Football brings in big bucks. Now that's what I call unfair.