I think the fundamental difference in the tools or materials used is exactly part of the issue in this thread, making the parallel as you propose it kind of unfortunate in my view. Besides, as I've argued several times over the course of this thread: the scope of a forum is inherently fluid, but we can decide on the boundaries within which we allow it to meander. For now we have decided that AI-related discussion is allowed in a specific place and no AI-generated imagery in the main gallery.
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Gallery photos: size limit, and should we allow AI content?
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- Thread starter RalphLambrecht
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I think the fundamental difference in the tools or materials used is exactly part of the issue in this thread, making the parallel as you propose it kind of unfortunate in my view. Besides, as I've argued several times over the course of this thread: the scope of a forum is inherently fluid, but we can decide on the boundaries within which we allow it to meander. For now we have decided that AI-related discussion is allowed in a specific place and no AI-generated imagery in the main gallery.
That seems like the best approach. A skateboard forum I'm part of has forums for tattoos and punk rock which are not necessarily components in the art of skateboarding. But they're easy enough to ignore.
Interesting the debates around the boundaries. I'd like a specific place here for etching which is a chemical process with an output onto paper, I think it is much closer to darkroom printing than artificial intelligence.
Interesting the debates around the boundaries. I'd like a specific place here for etching which is a chemical process with an output onto paper, I think it is much closer to darkroom printing than artificial intelligence.
It’s the internet - it makes things sound antagonistic. It’s nothing personal - I greatly appreciate your input on many things and I’ve expressed that previously.
But you seem to want a discussion, but not want it at the same time. Set up any sub forum you like, but if you want to open a discussion on AI, don’t patronise contributions you don’t agree with. I’ve pointed out clear evidence of you doing just that.again it’s nothing personal even if it sounds like that. It’s a trope as I said (fear of change etc) a cultural tendency We’ve all seen before. It’s unnecessary.
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@perkeleellinen Oh, etching is lovely! Definitely feel free to post about it. If it involves Photographic exposure, the subforum about Alternative Printing is the most appropriate place. If it's not a Photographic process, maybe for now we'll have to go with the Lounge, but perhaps we can make a better place for it in the future.
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- Alan Edward Klein
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- Reason: False, tendentious and harmful to the community
TheFlyingCamera
Membership Council
I'm in the middle of planning the next iteration of my Foto Inter/Cambio conference in Mexico City. The core content is devoted to large format and historic processes. But we are planning on having a session devoted to AI artists - we will be presenting artists using AI in an ethical manner and discussing how they came to use it, and what place it has in their artistic practice. If we continue to stick our heads in the sand and pretend AI doesn't exist, or worse, refuse to engage with it in meaningful dialogue, we will have no role in shaping how it evolves and we will be blindsided by it when we can't recognize it.
MattKing
Moderator
I think a better analogy would be a poetry forum deciding to allow song lyrics.
This observation may be fueled at least partially by the fact that I am currently reading Leonard Cohen: "The Flame - Poems and Selections From Notebooks".
This entire discussion would make a nice bookend along with this diametrically opposite thread: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/enlarging-small-sections-to-large-sizes.217568/#post-2955442
AI doesn't have to be a part of everything. Let's leave some things pure. What is wrong with purity?
To me, it's a simple answer to this AI question on Photrio.
I belong to a website dedicated to the Ford Taurus (and sister car Mercury Sable.) If someone were to say, "They need to add a subsection for Pontiacs," I would question why? If you like Pontiacs so much, create your own website dedicated to strictly Pontiacs, and don't try to dilute the Taurus website.
Why is it so hard to figure this out? Let the AI artists create their own website and stop trying to infiltrate everything else. Is there really a need to homogenize everybody's websites?
I would vote "No" on this question to dilute Photrio.
I belong to a website dedicated to the Ford Taurus (and sister car Mercury Sable.) If someone were to say, "They need to add a subsection for Pontiacs," I would question why? If you like Pontiacs so much, create your own website dedicated to strictly Pontiacs, and don't try to dilute the Taurus website.
Why is it so hard to figure this out? Let the AI artists create their own website and stop trying to infiltrate everything else. Is there really a need to homogenize everybody's websites?
I would vote "No" on this question to dilute Photrio.
Some people show an interest in designing corn harvesters. Are you saying we should make some space for that as well? Why one and not the other?
TheFlyingCamera
Membership Council
This isn't a question of purity, or of allowing AI work on this site. The bigger point I was making, that you ignored, is that if we insist on ignoring the existence of AI and the effects of it, we will not be able to recognize it as AI when presented with it claiming it is reality.
I was not ignoring your point. AI simply doesn't belong here and we have no need to recognize it here on Photrio. Just as we don't recogize corn harvesters. Or uranium deposits. Or quasars. Or.... etc. Why are you not talking about recognizing anything else but AI when this is a photography website, which it has been established AI is not photography? Curious.
Yet, most if the discussion is not about photography. It's about cameras, chemistry, film and all manner of things related to image-making. AI can be related to image-making and by that token, we have created a place for it. It's not being used much, but it's there for those who have an interest in it. Those who would rather not see it can choose to look away or even put that section on their individual ignore list.
Also, the 'why no to this and yes to that' thing has been discussed ad nauseam. Why kick a thread that had petered out half a year ago to add something that was already there? I'd rather look at people's AI creations. At least they're different every time.
mmm. an image making site or a photography site? Perhaps Photrio will change to imagquadro
MattKing
Moderator
A photography internet site that ignores the influence of AI on the photography ecosystem reminds me of King Canute.
A photography internet site that helps put in context the influence of AI on the photography ecosystem seems more realistic.
I feel like I have gotten myself in a wrestling tag team match without a partner.
Your statement is reasonable; but it is not the same as rhetorically substituting AI's relation to image-making as a synonym for AI's relation to photography. Image-making by any reasonable definition is a much larger subject and is here, I surmise, a means of softening the introduction of non photographic AI images. Keeping in mind, Photrio is where photographers gather to talk craft.
MattKing
Moderator
Yes that is a big part of Photrio.
But there are lots of other photography related things discussed here.
For example, the discussions in these sub-fora:
Has it?
I am just reading the first sentence of the Home page.
Many things, including AI, are related to photography, possibly everything in some way. I am not concerned about AI. The decision to allow completely AI created images will be the Photrio's. I have no influence.
I am more concerned by the trend that discussions on this site are tending to becoming more of venue for some members to hone their rhetorical skills just for the purpose of winning arguments. Post 212 for example is a good example of dialogism; A disjunctive conclusion inferred from a single premise. (the premise being Image-making is the same as photography).
Some members are extremely skilled at using rhetoric to try to win arguments. The back and forth can occasionally be amusing, but eventually become tiring.
I try to respond to members if I can help with something I know about. If it is an opinion I will put it forward once, and try to avoid repetitive back and forth, designed to come out on top.
But once in a while egregious rhetorical trickery does disturb my "wa"
A quite Canadian "sorry"
and a self face slap reminding myself it is only the internet.
MattKing
Moderator
If that's the case, so is 218.
Btw, you could find in previous posts why I might have opted to conflate photography and image-making - but I respect the fact you didn't want to wade through many pages of back & forth. However, it does make your seemingly deliberate framing of my post as something it wasn't feel kind of unfair and uncalled for.
Sorry, I will try and be better.
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