Fujifilm 400

[Arcadia4]

B&H are listing a new ‘fujifilm 400‘ product - made in USA, as per fujifilm 200, with Superia 400 Xtra listed on their site as discontinued, although over here theres fresh product still in stock in a few places. At the same time Superia 400 Xtra is back on sale in the Japan market. (Previously discontinued in favour of Premium 400)

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1759047-REG/fujifilm_600022184_400_color_negative_film.html

So this might be short term solution to ongoing supply chain issues, to help backfill supply in the US market or longer term tie up with kodak. Either way its presumably ultramax in the can?

 

[pentaxuser]

If this is Kodak ultramax that is being sold under the Fuji label and given Kodak is currently having a problem meeting the demand for C41 why would it agree to have a contract to make its own film for Fuji to re-label?

I think it was Greg Davis who in a very short video virtually swore with shock on camera several months ago about this as he felt he had discovered what seems to be exactly what the opening post is alleging so there may be a lot in this but I'd love to see the Kodak's rationale

pentaxuser

 

[cmacd123]

well it has the Markings done verticaly, and the picture of the package shows "made in USA" two stong hints.

 

[cmacd123]

but I'd love to see the Kodak's rationale

Fuji willing to pay more than the contract rate in the deal with Alaris? contract entered into some time ago before they realized that Kodak Brand film might be in short supply?

 

[MattKing]

Kodak can make way more 35mm film than they are able to put into cassettes.
And Kodak will contract coat other people's emulsions for them - at a price.

 

[Paul Howell]

It is unclear if Kodak is rebranding Kodak Gold or other Kodak emulsion or is coating using a Fuji emulsion, seems that the consensus I read is that Fuji 200 and 400 sold in the U.S is rebranded Kodak.

 

[skylight1b]

B&H are listing a new ‘fujifilm 400‘ product - made in USA, as per fujifilm 200, with Superia 400 Xtra listed on their site as discontinued, although over here theres fresh product still in stock in a few places. At the same time Superia 400 Xtra is back on sale in the Japan market. (Previously discontinued in favour of Premium 400)

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1759047-REG/fujifilm_600022184_400_color_negative_film.html

So this might be short term solution to ongoing supply chain issues, to help backfill supply in the US market or longer term tie up with kodak. Either way its presumably ultramax in the can?

Thanks for the heads up! I honestly don't care what the "real" film is inside as it's the only color film we may get at $6/roll (if that's accurate).

 

[Beverly Hills]

Kodak can make way more 35mm film than they are able to put into cassettes.
And Kodak will contract coat other people's emulsions for them - at a price.

My name for that issue MattKing : THE CORONA FACTOR

1) corona has effected supply chains

2) because of corona there has been a retreat into private,
domestic life wich would revive many hobbies.

3) demand has increased

4) raws were calculated in advance and there were reserves

5) demand increased more than expected

6) reserves from raws became scarce and had to be procured again.

7) within trade there were some sales, wich let to increased
orders from the manufacturers

8) supply chains came to a brief standstill.

9) film demand would be hyped through social media by bloggers who create their own brand with sentences like :
"I shoot film"

10) there was a shortage in all areas and an even further increased demand was counteracted with a price increase.


Isn't that a little more true MattKing ?

 

[brbo]

Kodak can make way more 35mm film than they are able to put into cassettes.
And Kodak will contract coat other people's emulsions for them - at a price.

Yes, but those "Fuji" 200 and 400 are sold in Kodak's cassettes and canisters.

 

[koraks]

And Kodak will contract coat other people's emulsions for them - at a price.

No doubt. However, I have strong doubts that Kodak are coating a Fuji-specific emulsion for their films. I expect the Superia 200 and 400 that are currently being manufactured are existing Kodak emulsions used in their own films as well. There's no/limited rationale for either Kodak or Fuji to deal with the added hassle of coating several emulsions of extremely similar products just to be able to sell under two different brand names. And given that the supply of 35mm film is still severely disturbed, I see no hint that Kodak is shipping pancakes or even caskets to Japan to have them confectioned there.

My bet at this time remains that Kodak is manufacturing Fuji's 35mm C41 films from start to finish, all the way up to boxing it up - effectively a 100% Kodak product, with Fuji's name printed on.

My name for that issue MattKing : THE CORONA FACTOR

Covid-related supply chain issues are a part of it, but by no means the entire story. There's 2 decades of pre-covid history that set the stage for the current situation, and since the covid lockdowns a lot has happened as well that strongly influences the present situation.

 

[pentaxuser]

My bet at this time remains that Kodak is manufacturing Fuji's 35mm C41 films from start to finish, all the way up to boxing it up - effectively a 100% Kodak product, with Fuji's name printed on.

koraks, what you have said in your longer post makes sense to me. However I have isolated the above part of it to ask what you believe to be Kodak's reasons

I have no way of knowing what the actual contract is between Kodak and KA and nor do any of us but I'd have thought that KA would have ensured in the contract that Kodak has an obligation to supply all the film that KA needs and given the demand for Kodak colour film currently, it suggests to me that KA would like more film than it is currently getting

So unless Kodak is under no contractual obligation to make KA its first priority in terms of supply I cannot work out why it is supplying Kodak film to Fuji for re-sale as Fuji film

I have seen an answer that indicates it may be contractually obliged to fulfil a Fuji contract that was signed before Kodak had any notion that it would be overwhelmed by the demand for its own film but does this seem likely to you? It doesn't to me

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[MattKing]

I doubt that it is being finished/confectioned by Eastman Kodak.

 

[brbo]

I doubt that it is being finished/confectioned by Eastman Kodak.

It's a perfect knock-off then. 100% exactly the same edge markings, cassette, canister and box.

Kodak would be wise to use that mystery finisher for their own films, too. Same quality and the price is right too since we can see that Fuji is able to sell these Kodak coated films, finished at that mystery/imaginary finisher, at lower prices than Kodak.

 

[MattKing]

It's a perfect knock-off then. 100% exactly the same edge markings, cassette, canister and box.

Kodak would be wise to use that mystery finisher for their own films, too. Same quality and the price is right too since we can see that Fuji is able to sell these Kodak coated films, finished at that mystery/imaginary finisher, at lower prices than Kodak.

I'm sure Eastman Kodak buy the cassettes (or the individual components), canisters and boxes from 3rd parties.

 

[koraks]

I'm sure Eastman Kodak buy the cassettes (or the individual components), canisters and boxes from 3rd parties.

They in fact have done so effectively that Foma to this day is struggling to get 35mm film to the market!

@pentaxusers - that's a lot of assumptions about contractual agreements. I really don't know. There are many ways in which the situation can work the way I think it does, within (or within the grey areas) of whatever contractual agreements between the parties. Moreover, contracts are one thing, and reality is another. There can be any number of developments in reality that somehow don't exactly match existing contractual obligations that were drafted based on different expectations. And then there's the issue of other forms of coordination besides contracts. Even if there are legal obligations one way or another, it's still possible that parties in the relationship decide to allow deviations from these because there's a good reason for those.

Long story short, there's a lot we don't know. I have suspicions, and only very few bits of information I consider reliable.

 

[miha]

They in fact have done so effectively that Foma to this day is struggling to get 35mm film to the market!

And yet they offer them for sale??

KAZETA KOVOVÁ typ 135 + plast.dóza, 8 ks/bal | Metal snap cap DX coded |FOMA BOHEMIA e-shop

8 pcs of disassembled cassettes without DX code

fomaobchod.cz

 

[koraks]

And yet they offer them for sale??

I imagine the situation might have improved by now. The source for my information in this case was in the retail channel, with someone who sources directly from Foma.

 

[miha]

I don't remember a case when Fomapan 135 film was out of stock at any retailer I frequent to, so whether the situation improved or not the customers were spared from the shortage. Anyway, back to the new Fujifilm.

 

[koraks]

the customers were spared from the shortage

I was only soared of it because I happened to be looking for 100ft rolls of 200. Had I wanted to buy some 35mm at this retailer, I would have been SOL. This was last week btw.

 

[miha]

Sorry for asking, what is SOL?

 

[BradS]

Sorry for asking, what is SOL?

Sh*t out of luck?

 

[miha]

Sh*t out of luck?

Well in this case koraks should change his retailer of choice.

 

[BradS]

Well in this case koraks should change his retailer of choice.

He just means that they didn't have any in stock.

 

[miha]

Yes, and he therefore should be better off with another retailer. As I said, Foma in 135 was never out of stock at any major European retailer. More so as his retailer shares some unfounded info about Foma with him. All speculations on my part, of course.

 

[cmacd123]

I have no way of knowing what the actual contract is between Kodak and KA and nor do any of us but I'd have thought that KA would have ensured in the contract that Kodak has an obligation to supply all the film that KA needs and given the demand for Kodak colour film currently, it suggests to me that KA would like more film than it is currently getting

when we hear that SinoPromise is having trouble getting stock, and The Kodak Pension fund who owns Kodak Alaris has had to call for help, one does sometimes get that aching acid indigestion that perhaps alaris is limited in the amount of product that they can commit to order at a time? Eastman Kodak having fought insolvency ,may be requiring payment in advance. something that perhaps is somewhat easier for a diverse chemical, Drug and technology firm like Fuji?