Fujica ST801 shutter speeds off, perhaps way off...

[Meow7]

Hi all, I have a Fujica ST801 that basically I bought for the Takumar 50/1.4 that was attached to it but it wasn't sold to me as a non-functioning camera. At any rate I never tested it then gave it to someone who said the faster speeds were off. I took it back and just now have gotten around to testing it myself. At a basic glance the shutter moves fine, the slow speeds seem a little slow and B does not open it just acts like it's 125 or something fast. I shot a roll thru it, using speeds from 125 up to 2000 (which I thought was iffy in and of itself). I even put in a fresh battery to make sure. Sure enough completely blank roll, nada. Could the dial be on wrong???

any ideas what I can look for and is it worth sending off to be fixed? Or should give it away as a project camera?

Thanks in advance!

 

[wiltw]

You have a 40 year old mechanically timed shutter in that camera. Likely what it needs is come cleaning of gummed up lubricants oxidized over 40 years, and then a bit of new lubricant, and the timing of the shutter verified and adjusted after the clean and lube.

 

[PGillin]

any ideas what I can look for and is it worth sending off to be fixed? Or should give it away as a project camera?

You have a 40 year old mechanically timed shutter in that camera. Likely what it needs is come cleaning of gummed up lubricants oxidized over 40 years, and then a bit of new lubricant, and the timing of the shutter verified and adjusted after the clean and lube.

Yeah, it likely just needs a good CLA. Those are reputed to be one of the better M42 cameras, so I would likely do it. A good camera with a recent service is a better use of money than buying another old second hand camera with an unknown service history and its own potential issues. Of course, if your neighbor comes by and offers you a black Spotmatic with a good shutter that may change the equation a bit.

I believe Bromfield Camera in Boston still offers CLA service, that's the closest place to you I can think of off-hand.

 

[rubbernglue]

It sound very strange to mee that firstly you found the shutter to be working, at least so much so that you can see that the shutter opens, right? And then You have no images on the roll at all?
I have two of these cameras and have found the faster timings to be a bit faulty 1/1000 and 1/2000, since I have darker coverage on the side of the images. However this should be pretty easy to fix or so I think.
Here is a different mechanical shutter camera which I think works in pretty much the same way:

Of course the camera in the video is a different one, and I am pretty sure that this is what I need to adjust, so far I dont know exactly how bad yours have gotten, but perhaps this is worth checking up on.

I got my first ST801 also along the ride when I bought a bunch of lenses but I have come to really enjoy it and it really is a great camera! I personally love these mechanical ones.

 

[Meow7]

Thanks for the responses. I believe as in the video above it's a curtain issue maybe. When I said the shutter was working I was being fooled by the fact that the curtains were moving, ie: they changed, one curtain had different spots than the other. When I set it at1/30 the shutter would move and i can see light, at 1/60 and up all it seemed to do was swap between the 2 curtains but no light can be seen. Am I correct in assuming there is a different mechanism for the speeds under 1/60? So the adjustment shown above to sync the curtains could solve the problem. But I wouldn't know how to actually test the speed accurately except on film. I hesitate to send this camera off for a CLA as I already have a very nice working ST801, but I don't just want to write this one off and a CLA would be more than the camera is worth, so I may tinker with it. I've looked around for a few videos but haven't found much. Thanks!

 

[shutterfinger]

Focal plane shutters in 35mm cameras use 2 shutter curtains. Each curtain is would on a spool on bearings with an internal spring and a bearing spool OR a double spool arrangement on a shaft. Both curtains should run the same speed or as in the Spotmatic the second curtain runs slightly faster than the first.
Operation is the first curtain is released then the second curtain is released to form a slit that is swept across the film plane. The width of the slit depends on the speed selected. When slow speeds are slow the curtain spool bearings are likely dry or gummed up by dried out grease/lubricant. When faster speeds are off or no slit is formed the second curtain is being released prematurely causing the curtains to be together. If the curtains are stuck together there will never be a slit at any speed.

The camera you are inquiring about likely has both curtain spool/transport issues as well as release issues will require the top to be removed to service the release. Earlier cameras used mechanical release while later cameras used electronically controlled solenoids to release the curtains.

https://pentax-manuals.com/manuals/service/servicemanuals.htm A Fujica AX-1 service manual is at the bottom of the page.

 

[David Lyga]

Meow (Kitty Cat):

Batteries matter not with the ST 801 except for the meter. Underneath the bottom plate are two ratchet screws which govern the shutter speeds. The one closest to the front of the camera governs the slower shutter speeds (second curtain) and the one closest to the rear of the camera governs the higher shutter speeds (capping). If I were there I would fix matters in 10 minutes but I wanted to at least tell you what was involved.

A little lighter fluid injected into the timing mechanism (box under the mirror) would not hurt. - David Lyga

 

[Meow7]

Hmmm, new hope for the camera. I think the one circled may be the slow shutter speeds. Which is the fast? Plus there is a fast shutter speed cam under the top plate. I have no problem attempting it if I knew what to do! I can find nothing on YouTube or anywhere to explain this.

 

[shutterfinger]

The shutter assembly instructions for the shutter in the previously AX-1 manual look very close to what you picture. I would flush it with 90% Isopropyl Alcohol or Contact Cleaner and operate while wet before turning any screws.

David, be sure to use the lighter fluid next to an open flame in a sealed room and apply liberally.

 

[Meow7]

Well I've decided it's officially above my pay grade, some things I can fix, this perhaps not. It's now a "free to a good home" camera, someone can fix it, just not me. Thanks for all the help! Too bad it was mostly lost on me,

 

[rubbernglue]

The best looking ST801 which I own is the one which does not work properly. When a slower timing is chosen (below 1/30) then the mirror flips up and the shutter is dead until I set in on B (i think) to reset it. However it works fin on times 1/60 and above. I then thought I should open it underneath as you did - then a very small spring fell out (it was not attached to anything). Just looking into the bottom of the camera gives me absolutely no clue where this small spring should be, and I don't plan on fixing it either - instead I have lots of extra parts for my other Fujicas
From this experience it sounds to me that you have the problem the other way around - since it sounds like you slower timings work but not the faster ones...

Oh well.. there are more of them out there.

 

[Meow7]

There are... and I do have a very clean working one. So not so bad, but cameras that don't work frustrate me.

 

[shutterfinger]

Camera repair manuals tend to be written for factory trained technicians and may be daunting for the average tinkerer.
Looking at the total mechanical works as one piece they can be quite daunting. Looking at the sub system that needs repair then its not that bad, but you may have to remove some other pieces to access it. You can't eat a 1 pound rib eye in a single bite, can you?

Get a can of CRC QD Contact Cleaner https://www.homedepot.com/p/CRC-11-oz-QD-Electronic-Cleaner-05103/205021975 . Thoroughly spray all gears and levers visible in the bottom. tack the bottom plate on, then cock and fire the shutter multiple times with the camera upside down then right side up. Remove the bottom plate and allow the camera to dry.
Soak a wood toothpick in clock oil or TriFlow https://www.amazon.com/Tri-Flow-Squ...9117&s=gateway&sprefix=triflow,aps,212&sr=8-3 and apply a straight pin point drop on all gear shafts, pivots, and wipe the edges of sliding parts that are accessible without any further disassembly.
Doing the same for the top is optional. Test the camera again upon completion and again after a week or two of non use. Odds are it will work better if not correct.

The cleaner and oil may be available at a hardware store close by.

 

[Meow7]

Great, thanks! I'll give that a go and what happens

 

[David Lyga]

Hmmm, new hope for the camera. I think the one circled may be the slow shutter speeds. Which is the fast? Plus there is a fast shutter speed cam under the top plate. I have no problem attempting it if I knew what to do! I can find nothing on YouTube or anywhere to explain this.

Remove the three screws of the tripod mount to access these shutter tensioning screws.