Fuji GSW690 III - wow

[George]

Actual size from my Fuji GW690III is 56.5mm X 86.5mm.

Actual size from Mamiya 7II is 56mm X 70mm.

Sandy King

Thanks, exactly what I suspected. Now if the GSW680III has the same actual film format as the Mamiya 7II (?) then the truer 6x8 film format is still from the GSW690III. As the two Fuji cameras have certainly the same outside dimension (with just a different film gate and a few changes to the count mechanism) what is the meaning in the quest for the 6x8 film format in the GSW680? Just curious...

 

[Alex Bishop-Thorpe]

I use Voigtlander VC II hot shoe light meters on my 6x6, 6x7 and 6x9 RF cameras.

Love them!

Meter angle approximately 30 degrees

Silicon Metering Cell

LED meter read out, center round green LED, red LEDs on both sides

ISO 25 to 3200 with 1/3 stop increments on the film speed dial

The ISO film speeds are marked at 1/3 stops.

Powered by two LR 44 alkaline or SR44 silver oxide batteries

This is exactly the meter I've been looking at too, glad to hear some other people's experience. Seems like a viable idea...I'll look into it. KEH is nearly as bad as ebay when it comes to lusting over cameras.

 

[david b]

well...the 6x8 would be more rectangular than the 6x7 format.

The 6x8 is also a little different. It puts out 9 negatives.

But it seems that this is a very elusive camera so I am going to get a 6x9 and
if the 6x8 comes around, I'll get that too.

 

[George]

David,
I just checked on my GW690III - (thus the one with 90mm lens, not the GSW690III with the 65mm lens) - as I said, it takes 56 x 82mm film pictures. Thus almost precisely exactly a 6x8 film format.

Now I wonder if the GSW690III really has a 58x86.5mm film gate as Sandy King says - it would be very strange to make a different film gate for the 65mm lens on otherwise the same camera.
Sandy, can you confirm?

 

[George]

In fact I confused the Sandy's camera type - he speaks about the GW690III camera - the same as I have. It's not possible that it would have the actual film size diffferent from mine. Can you recheck it again?

And, as you, David, already have negatives from the GSW690III - can you measure the actual film size of them? It should be the same - 56x82mm.

 

[Lee L]

My GW690II negatives are just under 56mm and right at 82mm.

Lee

 

[George]

That's what I thought, that it must be the same dimension for both the 65 and 90mm lens. Voilà - the true 6x8 format found..!

 

[Peter De Smidt]

I have both the so-called 6x7 and a 6x9 rangefinder models. For some images, I find the 6x7 too square and the 6x9 too rectangular. For those images, I wish I had what Fuji called their 6x8 version. I don't really care what the actual measurements are.

 

[Lee L]

That's what I thought, that it must be the same dimension for both the 65 and 90mm lens. Voilà - the true 6x8 format found..!

Taking aspect ratio and the measured narrow dimension of the negatives into account, that doesn't ring as true as it might appear at first glance. The aspect ratio of a full theoretical 6x8 is 0.75:1, whereas the full frame of the Fuji 690 negative is much closer to 0.67:1, much closer to the 6x9 or 35mm full frame ratio. This is why my C/V 40mm hot shoe finder for 35mm works so well with the GW690II.

Lee

 

[sanking]

In fact I confused the Sandy's camera type - he speaks about the GW690III camera - the same as I have. It's not possible that it would have the actual film size diffferent from mine. Can you recheck it again?

And, as you, David, already have negatives from the GSW690III - can you measure the actual film size of them? It should be the same - 56x82mm.

I owned a GSW690III for several years. The film gate on it was 57mm X 85mm.

I checked again the measurement of the GW690III, and it is definitely 56.5mm X 86.5mm.

The difference in actual size certainly seems odd.


Sandy King

 

[Lee L]

I owned a GSW690III for several years. The film gate on it was 57mm X 85mm.

I checked again the measurement of the GW690III, and it is definitely 56.5mm X 86.5mm.

The difference in actual size certainly seems odd.


Sandy King

Sandy,

Are you the original owner on both cameras? Do you have a half-circle notch a couple of mm down from the top on the left side of the film gate when viewed from the back of the camera?

What I'm getting at here is that someone may have filed or machined the gate a bit larger than stock. My GW690II has a thinner rim around the film gate that could be removed to widen the negative a bit. The inside dimension where the gate material thickens again is 86mm on my sample.

I'm willing to believe that Fuji may have made modifications over time, but a modified film gate seems a likely explanation as well. If that was done, it would eliminate the semicircular notch that I described above.

Lee

 

[sanking]

Sandy,

Are you the original owner on both cameras? Do you have a half-circle notch a couple of mm down from the top on the left side of the film gate when viewed from the back of the camera?

Lee

Lee, I am not the original owner of the GW690III. However, the gate does indeed have a half-circle notch, though it is a a couple of mm *up* from the left side of the gate when viewed from the back. The camera does not appear to have been modified by the previous owner.

I was the original owner of the GSW690III which had a film gate size of 57mm X 85mm.

Sandy King

 

[Lee L]

Lee, I am not the original owner of the GW690III. However, the gate does indeed have a half-circle notch, though it is a a couple of mm *up* from the left side of the gate when viewed from the back. The camera does not appear to have been modified by the previous owner.

I was the original owner of the GSW690III which had a film gate size of 57mm X 85mm.

Sandy King

Sandy,

Thanks. Just curiosity on my part. Looks like there were some changes to the film gate during production. It was a long run, 30 years(?), with three major revisions, so I guess it's not that surprising, even within a given version.

Lee

 

[George]

Taking aspect ratio and the measured narrow dimension of the negatives into account, that doesn't ring as true as it might appear at first glance. The aspect ratio of a full theoretical 6x8 is 0.75:1, whereas the full frame of the Fuji 690 negative is much closer to 0.67:1, much closer to the 6x9 or 35mm full frame ratio. This is why my C/V 40mm hot shoe finder for 35mm works so well with the GW690II.

Lee

Lee, you can never have a true theoretical 0.75:1 ratio on the frame because the film itself is just 61mm large. All 120 film cameras must have one or more mm metal edge on the film (on each side) to support it. Therefore the Fuji690 is still the closest you can get to a true 6x8 (actual!) film format. The theoretical aspect ratio in this case is misleading as you compare apples and oranges - i.e. theoretical and actual (possible) film formats.
I'm sure that the mythical Fuji680 is in fact something like 56 x 72mm actual film format. They would be idiots to make two cameras - one with 56x82mm and the other 56x80mm or something like that- at the same time. The difference must be at least 10mm to make some sense photographically.

The fact that we have Fuji GW690III cameras with two different dimensions of the film negative is remarkable by itself - the 3.5mm difference just doesn't make a sense photographically but may have some mechanical reason in connection with film winding mechanism or maybe they tried to make the film lying flatter on the later (mine with 56x82mm format) GW690III model. Interesting.

 

[Lee L]

Lee, you can never have a true theoretical 0.75:1 ratio on the frame because the film itself is just 61mm large. All 120 film cameras must have one or more mm metal edge on the film (on each side) to support it. Therefore the Fuji690 is still the closest you can get to a true 6x8 (actual!) film format. The theoretical aspect ratio in this case is misleading as you compare apples and oranges - i.e. theoretical and actual (possible) film formats.

That was my point, that the edge support made a full 60mm width mechanically impractical, so to keep the 6x9 aspect ratio the reduced long dimension is required. You could get a 0.75:1 ratio by doing 56mm x 75mm at the film gate. 120 formats are more like finished lumber dimensions in the US, nominal.

In practice, this reminds me of the Benson & Hedges(?) US ad campaign about a cigarette that was a "silly millimeter longer". It didn't really matter, but it got people talking.

Lee

 

[George]

I agree. In the end it doesn't make any practical difference, 82, 87 etc. I wonder why there was the 6x8 in the first place, when it probably was more 6x7 etc. Anyway, the 690III is a wonderful machine, it got me to love the format so much that I bought a 6x9 ArcaSwiss and enjoy both of them. The 120 film has good future in front of itself as it allows quick shooting even combined with LF features. The roll film as such is a great feature in the photography world, no doubt about it...

 

[keithwms]

Aaargh, I have been chasing a top condition gsw690III for years. I thought I finally had it a few years ago and it turned out to be an elaborate ebay hoax

I agree with George, 120 has a bright future, these wonderful pieces are still worth their price.

Fuji: please take the Mamiya 6 design and make it a 6x8 and put your 65mm EBC on it.

 

[George]

Aaargh, I have been chasing a top condition gsw690III for years. I thought I finally had it a few years ago and it turned out to be an elaborate ebay hoax
....

I feel so good, Keith, when you say this... I bought my 690III just a few months after its production was ended, with a thought -it could be a good camera to have, a modern 6x9... and I never regretted that for a small moment! I also love the fact that it is a completely mechanical camera. You trust it as you do your best friend. With a spot meter you can make miracles on slides. It's one of the cameras that could be resurrected when people realize the archival advantages of the film photography again... as Fuji certainly does, with its new folder.

 

[sanking]

The fact that we have Fuji GW690III cameras with two different dimensions of the film negative is remarkable by itself - the 3.5mm difference just doesn't make a sense photographically but may have some mechanical reason in connection with film winding mechanism or maybe they tried to make the film lying flatter on the later (mine with 56x82mm format) GW690III model. Interesting.

It would be curious to know if the film gate size is related to period of production, in that it was 56X82mm at one time, and later changed to 56X86mm, or vice versa. Just for the record, the serial # of my GW690III is 4070***.

The GSW690III is a much sought after model of the Fuji rangefinders. I purchased mine new in 2000 from B&H and sold it in 2007 for several hundred dollars more than I paid for it, at about going price for a unit in EX++ condition. The 65mm EBC Fujinon is a great lens but I was not very happy with the viewfinder so decided to sell it to raise money for a Mamiya 7II outfit. Also, I am not a big super wide angle fan, and the medium wide angle look of the GW690III fits much better my way of seeing than the 65mm lens.

Sandy King

 

[Lee L]

I would be curious to know if the film gate size is related to period of production, in that it was 56X82mm at one time, and later changed to 56X86mm, or vice versa.
Sandy King

Mine's a GW690II, bought in late '88 (?) from B&H, #2120xxx. 82mm image width.

I haven't seen a III, but would be curious to see the newer III finder. I use a 40mm C/V hot shoe finder to see much more clearly what's in the frame. The camera captures much more than is easily seen in the stock finder, so the much brighter auxiliary finder is a very nice addition. Both finders are about .80 magnification.

Lee

 

[George]

My GW690III is the last one on the shelf (just kidding...) - its production number is 7110xxx. Still looking like new, after being with me all over the world (in its soft pouch in a backpack and a specially made case in a car).

 

[George]

with a 56x82mm film format, forgot to say.

 

[sanking]

My GW690III is the last one on the shelf (just kidding...) - its production number is 7110xxx. Still looking like new, after being with me all over the world (in its soft pouch in a backpack and a specially made case in a car).

If we assume that the production numbering is sequential for all of the GW690 cameras, which is a logical assumption IMO, the size of the gate does not appear to be related to early or late production. My camera with the 4****** serial number falls about half way between one with serial number in the 2****** and another with serial number in the 7******.

Sandy King

 

[George]

Sandy, did you measure the 86 (86.5)mm on the film gate in the camera or on an actual film negative?

 

[sanking]

Sandy, did you measure the 86 (86.5)mm on the film gate in the camera or on an actual film negative?

George,

I measured first on the negative, and then when some of you mentioned that your film gate was 56X82mm I went back and measured carefully on both the negative and on the film gate itself. On the GW690III I get 56.5X86.5mm both ways, as I would expect since the pressure plate holds the film too firmly to the gate for there to be any light seepage. I also measured with two different rulers to make sure one was not off.

Sandy King