Fuji freezer film rumour
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Andrew O'Neill
Moderator
憶測は無駄だ
We may never know what is happening. I would have loved to see the video show for example what sort of Can the film she bought in Japan was packed in.
clear fuji film can?
frosty clear and Grey cap Kodak Can
all black with the intials UCP on the bottom Harmon Can.
something else.?
as far a freezer film, I did remember buying the Lagacy Pro 400 when it came out. At 3 dollars US a roll II bought quite a bit of it. the first batch I got was in fuji Canas with Grey tops, and I also got some Neopan 400 to compair. The Lgacy Pro was makrd with a lower emusion number than the Neopan 400. They sold out of the LP400, but several months later got a new supply. now it was in Fuji cans with clear tops, the same as fuji colour film and the emusion number was higher than the first batch, But still lower than the neopan I had purchased. (the first part of the emusion number is part of the edge rpint on Fuji film so you can consult your negatives from this time)
The LP400 had "private lable version edge printing but te neopan did say Fuji, and the other fieleds were liklwise as different as could be found on Fuji named film vs Fuji private label colour (being a cheepskate I used to often buy store brand fuji colour which I could identify by the format of the date printed on the box)
While I never did see Bulk Neopan, I did get several bulk rolls of the LP400 and found they came on 100ft metal spools which were stamped "FUJI FILM" on the flanges.
this iis the level of observatiion you have to use to attempt to determine the origin of the Film.
clear fuji film can?
frosty clear and Grey cap Kodak Can
all black with the intials UCP on the bottom Harmon Can.
something else.?
as far a freezer film, I did remember buying the Lagacy Pro 400 when it came out. At 3 dollars US a roll II bought quite a bit of it. the first batch I got was in fuji Canas with Grey tops, and I also got some Neopan 400 to compair. The Lgacy Pro was makrd with a lower emusion number than the Neopan 400. They sold out of the LP400, but several months later got a new supply. now it was in Fuji cans with clear tops, the same as fuji colour film and the emusion number was higher than the first batch, But still lower than the neopan I had purchased. (the first part of the emusion number is part of the edge rpint on Fuji film so you can consult your negatives from this time)
The LP400 had "private lable version edge printing but te neopan did say Fuji, and the other fieleds were liklwise as different as could be found on Fuji named film vs Fuji private label colour (being a cheepskate I used to often buy store brand fuji colour which I could identify by the format of the date printed on the box)
While I never did see Bulk Neopan, I did get several bulk rolls of the LP400 and found they came on 100ft metal spools which were stamped "FUJI FILM" on the flanges.
this iis the level of observatiion you have to use to attempt to determine the origin of the Film.
I bought some Fuji 400 made by Kodak too. That was a couple months ago and the store I bought it from still has it on the shelf. I truly think that Fuji no longer makes any C-41 film. We know that Kodak has been making their C-41 film for a while now, and Ilford has been making their B&W film. Transparency films are all that's left and they're hard to get. Kodak will be the last man standing in color film, I think. For B&W, some of the smaller companies like Harman/Ilford may outlive Kodak.
MattKing
Moderator
That hasn't been anyone's approach for a very long time. It costs a fortune - in capital costs and high storage costs as well. The opinions of the bankers and accountants and tax people who decide most such things make it totally impractical.
The only time it has been prevalent was when the bottom fell out of the film market, when companies were forced to choose between warehousing stock that couldn't be sold, or selling it at a huge discount. Both alternatives were unpalatable - and in many cases, either alternative led to bankruptcy,
And I understood that AGFA went to door #3 and paid to have some of their material of an industrial nature shipped to a scrapper for silver recovery.
the spin off of Agfa photo apparently had the factory running huge runs of film as selling it cheep as film was cheaper than paying to have the materials hauled away as chemical waste. thus the short lived bargains like 2 dollar colour film at dollar store equivelents in the UK.
At a Japanese trade show related to analytical chemistry I recall seeing a Fujifilm flyer that was promoting their expertise in replacing toxic chemicals with friendlier ones in manufacturing processes. Fuji seems to have some experience in this area and are offering their services to others. I realized then that manufacturers worldwide are challenged by the need to replace ingredients that are problematic at some point in the supply chain. These may be the supply chain issues that Fujifilm mentions. If a particular film required new formulations and processes, that would require a substantial investment in cash and engineering resources.
They advertise all manner of services that derive directly from their photographic endeavors. This doesn't mean they're currently involved in any of that, and this substitution game is one they've played for decades and decades, so it doesn't prove any recent endeavors either. Rather, it's consistent with their strategy of trying to leverage existing competencies - which isn't too easy, btw. In fact, it's a bit of a struggle since their seemingly generic competencies often manifest in ways with insanely high asset specificity.
Yes, all the time, and has been that way for, well, pretty much forever, really. Re-sourcing and substitution are ever-present processes.
Fuji did say that their cosmetics business was directly drawn from the knowledge of Colour and colour chemistry from the film business. They also made a big push into medical drugs, based on their knowledge of Organic Chemistry.
Charles, all of what they do somehow draws on what they did in the photography business. Don't forget that Fuji was initially a chemical company - and at the core remains so. They then spent about a century focusing on photography, which means that virtually all their activities were related to that range of applications. They currently try to refocus their competencies towards new markets; cosmetics is indeed one (but it's minor), healthcare is a major one, energy is another promising domain. Of course they are also very successful in making the film products that go into flat panel displays; most LCD's worldwide contain Fuji film (which is not photographic film of course).
There's always the question of the chicken and the egg in a case like this. Is Fuji successful in e.g. their LCD materials because they're primarily a chemical company that knew how to manufacture thin polymer films, or because they were a company focused on applications that involved thin polymer films? It depends on how you look at it.
Just like people, companies learn by doing. You can then apply what you have learned in a new context. It requires additional knowledge of that context to do so successfully. This is the main thing Fuji is now running into - to be a successful cosmetics/healthcare/petrochemical/etc supplier, you need not only be good at manufacturing films, organic molecules and emulsions (in the chemical sense, not the photographic sense), you also need to understand the requirements, structure and habits of the markets involved. It's a big task to learn those things.
There's always the question of the chicken and the egg in a case like this. Is Fuji successful in e.g. their LCD materials because they're primarily a chemical company that knew how to manufacture thin polymer films, or because they were a company focused on applications that involved thin polymer films? It depends on how you look at it.
Just like people, companies learn by doing. You can then apply what you have learned in a new context. It requires additional knowledge of that context to do so successfully. This is the main thing Fuji is now running into - to be a successful cosmetics/healthcare/petrochemical/etc supplier, you need not only be good at manufacturing films, organic molecules and emulsions (in the chemical sense, not the photographic sense), you also need to understand the requirements, structure and habits of the markets involved. It's a big task to learn those things.
We know for sure that the "AgfaPhoto Vista 200" which was in Poundland selling for £1 in the UK up until about 2017 was manufactured by Fuji. They must have sold hundreds of thousands of rolls at that price, under that name. It was sold under other names too, such as Boots the Chemists, and no doubt under further names in other countries.
Presumably the licence holder for "AgfaPhoto" made a few pennies per roll. Presumably Poundland did too. FujiFilm may have sold at a loss. Given the sheer volume of film they offloaded in the 2010s....why on earth would they *additionally* keep vast amounts frozen, at great expense, to revive many years later? It makes no sense.
Presumably the licence holder for "AgfaPhoto" made a few pennies per roll. Presumably Poundland did too. FujiFilm may have sold at a loss. Given the sheer volume of film they offloaded in the 2010s....why on earth would they *additionally* keep vast amounts frozen, at great expense, to revive many years later? It makes no sense.
This just showed up on uTube:
MattKing
Moderator
If you carefully compare the films in the latest Fuji packaging with the current Kodak offerings, you might notice a few similarities .....
However, this isn't true of the ones being sold in Japan. You can get real Superia, C200 and Fujicolor 100 there. I think that video is stating something as fact that the creator simply doesn't actually know, though. They're extrapolating "I can buy Fuji's films in Japan" to mean "Fuji is producing film again".
MattKing
Moderator
You may be surprised if you check what is in those boxes sold in Japan .....
Yeah, the USA has regulations on country of origin labeling, sometimes it can be funny. Made with domestic and global sources etc.
Not sure how different countries handle this. Made in could be converted in etc.
It would be nice if Fujifilm could be just a little bit more transparent in terms of availability of different films in the near term.
What is the big surprise?
MattKing
Moderator
How similar that film is to film from other sources.
Do you know which Kodak film they're selling as Fujicolor 100? I also wonder how they're differentiating between Superia X-TRA and Superia Premium now that it's all just Kodak film.
MattKing
Moderator
Even if I knew what the exact source was, I could not say 
Assuming that you are correct, I also don't think you can be sure that the film isn't a highly customized product - Fuji has lots of resources, and Eastman Kodak has a lot of abilities to be flexible and adaptable.
Assuming that you are correct, I also don't think you can be sure that the film isn't a highly customized product - Fuji has lots of resources, and Eastman Kodak has a lot of abilities to be flexible and adaptable.
None of them are produced by Kodak. Same goes for ANY Fuji film mentioned in the video that is discussed here.
Kodak only produces "Fujifilm 200" and "Fujifilm 400" colour negative film in 135 for Fuji. Any other colour negative film with "color", "c", "x-tra", "superia", "premium" or anything else in the name is from Fuji.
I know. I was just trying to get more information out of Matt.
Today, it was announced that Japan will also stop producing the Xtra400.
Not looking good...
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