Fuji Does Not Care about Film

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DREW WILEY

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Sometimes it just doesn't make sense to drop or alter a legacy name like Fujiflm, regardless of the fact that film itself is now just a tiny part of its business. It reflects the depth of their corporate history, their roots. They're still deeply tied to image-making one way or another. The tentacles have branched off far and wide into lucrative medical and pharmaceutical ventures, but the same could be said for Nikon, which has wisely kept its legacy name too.
 
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MattKing

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George Eastman coined "Kodak" specifically because it was distinctive and didn't directly reference the company's products.
And in response, for a decent part of the late 19th century and early 20th century, large numbers of people referred to cameras as "Kodaks".
Names are funny things.
 

brbo

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brbo - What Kodak paper business? Who cares who now owns a brand label with apparently no product left to sell? - or only random leftovers to sell?

Sino Promise bought Kodak colour paper business and chemicals from Alaris when that business was seriously competing with Fuji. Now, you might think that Alaris and Fuji came to a "gentlemen's agreement" and then just asked Sino Promise nicely to deliberately run their new business to the ground with no other financial benefits for them, but this is most probably not what happened.
 

DREW WILEY

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Here in the US, it was an extinction event. Once all the labs necessarily went over to Fuji paper, it's doubtful they'll go back to Kodak brand, especially a questionable faux "Kodak" paper. Yeah, someone might find a secondary importing niche, but it probably won't make a dent.
 

koraks

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Here in the US

Lucky isn't really targeting the US so far, nor Europe. It looks like they're in first instance interested in serving the Chinese market and maybe parts of Asia. Undoubtedly they'll try their hand at the African continent as well. It's probably a smart strategy on their part to do it this way, too.
 

MultiFormat Shooter

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Btw, not that Kodak is so much better. I tried to contact them in the past about color paper and received no answer whatsoever. No acknowledgement, no polite "we'll forward your request" or "please have a look at our online documentation" - nothing whatsoever.
Which is a shame. I also emailed them once, a couple years back, and did not get much of an answer, if they even responded, at all.

In contrast, as high-school kid, getting in to photography pre-internet (1990 or so). I mailed Kodak a letter asking about their different films, and if they had any catalogs available. I didn't include "my" (i.e. parents') household phone number in my letter, but still received a call, from a man in customer service. He must've talked to me for about 30 minutes about different still and movie films, and sent me a box of kodak catalogs and brochures. (I was, and still am, interested in Super 8 home movies.)
 

MattKing

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In contrast, as high-school kid, getting in to photography pre-internet (1990 or so). I mailed Kodak a letter asking about their different films, and if they had any catalogs available. I didn't include "my" (i.e. parents') household phone number in my letter, but still received a call, from a man in customer service. He must've talked to me for about 30 minutes about different still and movie films, and sent me a box of kodak catalogs and brochures. (I was, and still am, interested in Super 8 home movies.)

Was it my Dad who got back to you? 😄
 

ant!

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And in response, for a decent part of the late 19th century and early 20th century, large numbers of people referred to cameras as "Kodaks".
Names are funny things.

Seems to be a North American thing. My girlfriend's parents, here in Quebec, still call my analogue camera's "Kodak" (and they haven't seen my Retina II).
I never heard that in Europe, but I guess with Agfa, ORWO, Ilford, Ferania, Kodak, Fuji, ... , the market was not that dominated by a single company....
 
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DF

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Other way around. The impetus came from Kodak Alaris because of the demand for still film transparency material. The added interest of the motion picture people probably meant that the extensive work required to bring it back was viable.

Speaking generally though, Fuji has never responded to end user enquiries. That isn't the Fuji way.
Back in the day, there were robust film product distributors in each local market. They were much more responsive. There might be someone left there who are interested in something beside Instax, and would be willing to go outside their normal responsibilities and respond to an end-user, but I wouldn't count on it.
If you were a high quantity commercial retail operation, you also might get a response.
End user outreach is a resource intensive, highly expensive challenge. Most largish manufacturers don't do that any more.

"f you were a high quantity commercial retail operation, you also might get a response..." - Even the busy camera shops that still sell film, and quite abit of it like Central Camera here in Chicago NEVER know what's going on at Fuji's end.
 
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DF

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Like I said in the other thread - you approach random people through LinkedIn with questions that interest you but don't really relate to their job/requirements, what do you expect? Of course you're not getting a response. It doesn't say much about "how Fuji feels about film" either. It just shows that it's not a very effective way to approach executives.

Btw, Fuji does care about film, but the truth is that it's just a very small part of their business. One part they do find interesting, also in terms of volumes and financial gains, is Instax. Pretty much everything that requires coating in Japan has to make way for Instax. Which makes perfectly good business sense. Other products coated on the same line therefore are coated intermittently, or are removed from the portfolio altogether. Recently they dropped production of Fujitrans, for instance. Not that you hear many people complain about that, even though that truly was a unique product that really has no substitute in current production, other than their color slide and color negative films. It's just not associated much with the analog crowd, so nobody hollers about it if it's gone (which is now the case).

Insofar as I talk to people at Fuji, they do care about the analog world btw, and they acknowledge our existence. They're the people in the paper business and although they spend extremely little time on analog, what time they do spend on it is always disproportionally much to the infinitesimally tiny revenues it creates for them. I'm not complaining; they pick up the phone, answer emails and they try to do their best (within reason) to answer my/our questions. But yeah, you need to know who to approach and how to approach them and to avoid wasting too much of their time.

I can't speak for the people in the film business as they're all in Japan. This is another reason why it doesn't make any sense whatsoever to approach people in US or European offices with questions about film. If you don't speak Japanese AND you don't have the contacts directly to the people involved in that business segment, you're not going to hear about that part of the business at all, ever. Zip, zilch, nada.



This is for the most part correct and they also acknowledge it - heck, we touched upon this only last week and they more or less literally said so. They're a B2B company, not used to or particularly interested in communicating directly with end users. It's not that they don't want to. For the most part, they just have other things to do and they're not organized to answer end user questions at a large scale - especially not about film, because like I said above, that's a Japanese endeavor and you're not going to get any answers, let alone straight ones, if you approach them as an American/Canadian/European etc. If you would know who to approach in the first place.

Btw, not that Kodak is so much better. I tried to contact them in the past about color paper and received no answer whatsoever. No acknowledgement, no polite "we'll forward your request" or "please have a look at our online documentation" - nothing whatsoever.



No, tens of millions or maybe a hundred million annually if they're very lucky. Which is big money, still. But not billions, by a long shot. Instax revenues aren't even close, let alone the money they actually make on it in terms of EBITDA etc.

"Fuji does care about film..."
"Insofar as I talk to people at Fuji, they do care about the analog world btw, and they acknowledge our existence..."
This sounds all very reassuring - glad to hear/read - you have the magic touch when it comes to Fuji
 

koraks

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No magic touch, but I do talk to people at a nearby Fuji plant sometimes. They're not directly involved in any film business, however.

Look, you're asking a heavily loaded question at the start of this thread. It's no surprise then if a discussion doesn't turn out to be very constructive. Think about it.
 

DREW WILEY

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It can take some persistence to get through to knowledgeable people. It is an unfortunate fact that customer service is an entry level position in many corporations. And having been a professional buyer for several decades, along with my other roles, I can affirm that when you're dropping millions of dollars per year with particular manufacturers, even the CEO will answer the phone darn fast. But even if you're calling as an "unknown", it helps to sound like a serious potential customer, and not a whiner.
 

MattKing

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"f you were a high quantity commercial retail operation, you also might get a response..." - Even the busy camera shops that still sell film, and quite abit of it like Central Camera here in Chicago NEVER know what's going on at Fuji's end.

But if they did, it wouldn't be from Fuji - it would be from the Fuji distributor.
 

ant!

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Oh yes. In Belgium, a still camera is/was called "a Kodak" in common parlance. Well, in Flemish at least.
Interesting. Yeah, Europe is big/divers. I should have said in Germany and Austria (the other European countries I lived in, like Denmark, I would not know since I don't speak the language well enough...). I heard it the first time in Quebec, in French.
 

MFstooges

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Seems to be a North American thing. My girlfriend's parents, here in Quebec, still call my analogue camera's "Kodak" (and they haven't seen my Retina II).
I never heard that in Europe, but I guess with Agfa, ORWO, Ilford, Ferania, Kodak, Fuji, ... , the market was not that dominated by a single company....

I grew up in Asia. People call cameras as "Kodak" and motorcycle as "Honda".
And of course "Levi's" for every friggin blue jeans.
 

ant!

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I grew up in Asia. People call cameras as "Kodak" and motorcycle as "Honda".
And of course "Levi's" for every friggin blue jeans.

It was just confusing for me since Kodak is/was mainly a film manufacturer, who also released some camera lines on the side now and then, but not as their primary product, or dominating the camera market. It's not the films which are called Kodak, but the cameras...

I guess some similar names in different areas exist as well in German, e.g. Haribo for all gummi bears, Matchbox for miniture car toys etc.
 

MFstooges

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It was just confusing for me since Kodak is/was mainly a film manufacturer, who also released some camera lines on the side now and then, but not as their primary product, or dominating the camera market. It's not the films which are called Kodak, but the cameras...

I guess some similar names in different areas exist as well in German, e.g. Haribo for all gummi bears, Matchbox for miniture car toys etc.

Tell me about that. I didn't know Kodak actually make film until I start using my parents' Canonet (it was still called Kodak) when I was teenager and later learned Kodak also makes Cameras when I see their digital pockets in stores LOL. The very cameras that they make in a late attempt to counter Japanese manufacturers.
 
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DF

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No magic touch, but I do talk to people at a nearby Fuji plant sometimes. They're not directly involved in any film business, however.

Look, you're asking a heavily loaded question at the start of this thread. It's no surprise then if a discussion doesn't turn out to be very constructive. Think about it.

This discussion I find very constructive
 

BrianShaw

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An additional thought... I'm sure that you are familiar enough with LinkedIn to realize that some of the profiles (whatever they are called) are old and outdated, so sometimes trying to use that for a contact turns out to be fruitless. It's unfortunate but par for the course.
 

Sirius Glass

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Some people call taking photographs, "Kodaking", but it has been many years since I last heard that.
 

lamerko

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The situation with slide films is not good. The last time I saw stock was April, a month earlier I also bought 10 units of both. I haven't seen anywhere since then.
Velvia 100 is available in some places, but only 35mm - for 120 format I haven't seen it anywhere this year.
Interestingly, the expiration date on the films I picked up a month later was about two months older. Either they're still making the film, or they've deep-frozen some quantities, setting an expiration date of a year and a half after release.
 

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BrianShaw

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Which is a shame. I also emailed them (Kodak, presumably) once, a couple years back, and did not get much of an answer, if they even responded, at all.

In past year, I sent a tecnical question to the "send a message; contact Kodak" facitlity on tehir website and got a detailed technical answer, complete with an example, reply within days. Some corporate managers, Mr. Mooney in this situation, still care about their customers. In the more distant past, such requests were addressed with generic replies that appeared to be from customer service agents who had no knowledge of the question asked or photography in general. But every time I've contacted Kodak in teh past half decade has received some sort of response. For most companies, though, customer service is getting to be luck of the draw...
 
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