Fuji Acros II came out blank

[mshchem]

Maybe this is trolling

 

[jimjm]

Thanks for the correction on the Ilford/Fuji manufacturing info. Admittedly, I'm still shooting from my original hoard of Acros, so I haven't yet tried the new stuff. I'll have to take a look at the boxes when I get a chance...

 

[koraks]

Maybe this is trolling

Come on, that's not a very nice suggestion to make. Let's not go there. If there's a valid concern about a post, the 'report' function is there and we'll look into it.

@runswithsizzers it's indeed relevant to ascertain whether the rodinal is still alive. A quick clip test will show this.

 

[pentaxuser]

@runswithsizzers it's indeed relevant to ascertain whether the rodinal is still alive. A quick clip test will show this.

Yes in fact given there was no edge markings at all, doesn't that rule out every cause except fix before developer except for possibly totally dead Rodinal. However as has been said, it sounds as if sudden and total death of Rodinal is an unlikely cause in comparison with fix before developer, if it is even possible

I have only had this happen to me once in about 20 years of home processing and it wasn't in the first few months either so I was convinced that I could not have made that mistake but clearly on that occasion due to what was a moment's lapse of concentration it did happen

If it was this that happened. OP, then if it's any consolation it somehow re-set my brain since then such that it was a one-off. I see no reason why it should not be anything other than a one-off in your case as well

pentaxuser





Given

 

[Ernst-Jan]

If you have edge markings on the film, it wasn’t exposed in the camera. If you have no edge markings, you probably used fixer before developer. Third possibility, but not likely, is a film defect.

But why are you using stop bath for 7 minutes?

Well, I have a couple of Acros II films that have no edge marking, but with good pictures. A mistake in production probably.

 

[koraks]

However as has been said, it sounds as if sudden and total death of Rodinal is an unlikely cause

Yes, I agree. A simple mixup is more likely.

 

[runswithsizzers]

Well, I have a couple of Acros II films that have no edge marking, but with good pictures. A mistake in production probably.

Adding to the above...
My experience is limited to two rolls of Fuji Acros II, and the edge markings were noticeably faint on both. The first time, the negatives were thin, and I thought the problem might have been due to some questionable XTOL - this was about the time the recall was announced.

The second roll was developed in Ilford Ilfosol 3. On that roll, the negative density was more-or-less normal, but the edge markings were very faint.

 

[Hassasin]

It's practically impossible to have film processed close to correctly and have faint edge markings, they are as high a contrast as one can get on a film. The more-or-less density of frames is no indication development/exposure was correct.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

It's practically impossible to have film processed close to correctly and have faint edge markings, they are as high a contrast as one can get on a film. The more-or-less density of frames is no indication development/exposure was correct.

Have you used Ilford's Pan F? The faintest edge markings I've ever seen.

 

[Hassasin]

Have you used Ilford's Pan F? The faintest edge markings I've ever seen.

Never had Pan F, but the only faint edge markings I've seen were on old expired films. I have seen fuzzy ones on several film of all brands, bu not faint ones on fresh film.

If we want to now say the Fuji Acros also has faint edge markings by design, then I'll leave that for others to discuss. And to be clear I have not used Acros II, only the actual original Acros.

 

[reddesert]

Have you used Ilford's Pan F? The faintest edge markings I've ever seen.

Pan F is the exception to some rules because it's known for latent image fading. I have some old bulk roll of a Freestyle derivative of Pan F (I mean old like 20+ years old), and IIRC the film still develops fine images but the edge markings are gone. Of course 20+ years is outside the realm of normal expectations. Anyway this is a diversion from the OP's experience: totally clear, zero edge markings on newish film suggests dead developer or stop/fix before developer.

 

[mshchem]

Come on, that's not a very nice suggestion to make. Let's not go there. If there's a valid concern about a post, the 'report' function is there and we'll look into it.

@runswithsizzers it's indeed relevant to ascertain whether the rodinal is still alive. A quick clip test will show this.

Sorry, I just see so many examples here of failing to follow manufacturers instructions. BUT MY BAD. This forum exists to educate.

 

[runswithsizzers]

If anyone wants to see an example of what I mean by faint edge markings, look here: https://garywright.smugmug.com/Photography/Fuji-Acros-100II-Apl-Aug-2023/i-s3Gdq7f/A

Just for the sake of discussion, let us say Fuji Acros II sometimes has faint edge markings. And we know Harman "makes" Fuji Acros II.

So how would that work? I do not know what method / technology is used to make the edge marking appear on film. Nor do I know exactly what it means to say Harman makes the film. Does Harman do everything, starting with coating the emulsion on the base? If so, do Harman use the same equipment to make Acros that they use to make their other films?

What I'm getting at is this: If the edge markings are applied by the same equipment Harman uses to make all their other films, then how / why would the Acros edge markings be different from Ilford or Kentmere films?

 

[koraks]

I do not know what method / technology is used to make the edge marking appear on film

Optical exposure. Most likely with an array of tiny LEDs at this day and age. That's at least how Kodak does it, and Fuji seems to have been doing it that way for decades as well. The alternative is a small mask and a single light source; this is how e.g. Foma seems to have been doing it up to a few years ago at least.

how / why would the Acros edge markings be different from Ilford or Kentmere films?

Exposure settings can be different even if the same finishing line is used. And latent image stability can be different for various emulsions too, of course.

 

[pentaxuser]

Exposure settings can be different even if the same finishing line is used. And latent image stability can be different for various emulsions too, of course.

It may largely be irrelevant to discovering the problem that has caused the OP's Acros II to be totally blank but runwithsizzers has raised an interesting question All of the Ilford films I have ever developed that was fresh seemed to have pretty much the same density of edge markings when developed to the Ilford times but setting that aside can you say why the exposure setting on the same finishing would be different?

Secondly there is the question of why in the experience of some users, does Acros II seem to have fainter edge markings than the original Acros, assuming it does. This might be explained if the original Acros was done by Fuji but Acros II by Ilford but you'd think that the Ilford edge mark settings on its machine on the same line would be the same. This of course brings us back tó your statement of different settings and my question of why this should be.

Does the Ilford machine have a range of settings between which it drifts? In which case there has to be a range of edge marking visibility across the whole of the Ilford range, doesn't there? Does Ilford alter the setting specifically for Acros II and presumably at the behest of Fuji and if it is set appreciably lower then one wonders why Fuji has asked for this

pentaxuser

 

[lamerko]

I'd rule out Rodinal's death - he's tougher than Duncan MacLeod!

 

[MFstooges]

View attachment 363677
If you look closely, down in the lower right-hand corner, you will see "Made in UK"

Correct. This was actually pointed out by the guy at Fuji shop where I bought the film.

 

[MFstooges]

Maybe this is trolling

Then you always have an option not to participate.

 

[Don_ih]

I think it would be difficult to mix up the order, if using Rodinal, since you mix the dilution immediately before dumping it in the tank. And the mixture doesn't look like fixer, like D76 or Xtol can. So it's most likely the Rodinal was bad. But surely that's quick and easy to check?

I used to fix film for 18 minutes in Kodak sodium thiosulfate fixer (slow fixer). Whenever I mentioned it, people would say "that's too long" - but they always assumed I was using rapid fixer. 18 minutes worked to clear Tmax 100, which was the film I was using most often.

 

[runswithsizzers]

I think it would be difficult to mix up the order, if using Rodinal, since you mix the dilution immediately before dumping it in the tank. And the mixture doesn't look like fixer, like D76 or Xtol can. So it's most likely the Rodinal was bad. But surely that's quick and easy to check?

It has been a while since I used Rodinal, but as I recall, it was dark brown in the container. However, I don't remember how much color a working solution of Rodinal has after diluting it.

We can keep guessing what went wrong, but as you suggest -- until the OP can test his Rodinal to verify if it is working normally - or dead - the Mystery of the Failed Acros will remain unsolved.

 

[pentaxuser]

My impression of Rodinal's deterioration is that of "gradual fading" rather than sudden death i.e. eventually it starts to produce thin negs which get thinner and thinner or so I presume but unless that particular Rodinal hadn't been used at all for maybe several years ( several being undetermined ) then apparent sudden death is unknown. I say "my impression" simply because in the case of the original Rodinal this is only my impression as I can't recall anyone here stating that their Rodinal was OK say a month before or even longer ago and then completely dead the next time they used it

I make the assumption here that the Rodinal in questíon is that made to the original recipe as it appears that if it was one of the several varieties that came onto the market post 2005 after Agfa went belly up then sudden and total death is a possibility. However the original lasts in some cases as long as 50-60 years or longer

I certainly have some that's now about 20 years old and I have yet to see any deterioration at all, let alone anything approaching even the beginnings of "fading"

However as has been said we won't be able to rule out total death until the OP responds

pentaxuser

 

[MFstooges]

I did a test with fully exposed small strip from the same Acros film, developed in the Rodinal, same result : b.l.a.n.k. clear cellulose.
Then I developed another Acros from the same batch that was still in the camera body when my baggage went thru the airport scanner. This time I use D76, same long ass stop bath and fixing time because I am still lazy. It worked. I also sent another roll that was outside the camera body to a professional lab just to rule out x-ray scanner issue.
The Rodinal I use is Adox and the last time I used it was probably a year ago or so. I definitely would not now of gradual fading that happened within the last one year.

 

[MattKing]

The Rodinal I use is Adox and the last time I used it was probably a year ago or so.

That is a lot of opportunity for a developer to either oxidize or become contaminated.

 

[250swb]

The OP should be congratulated, he's ticked off at least three mistakes and possibly even more all with one film, and it takes some people years before similar mistakes come along in isolation to prick the bubble of 'it's never happened to me'...

 

[koraks]

The OP should be congratulated, he's ticked off at least three mistakes and possibly even more all with one film

You're right!

The Rodinal I use is Adox and the last time I used it was probably a year ago or so.

Hmm, last time I bought Rodinal, it was also Adox-made, but this was several years ago. It also didn't last very long. There are many discussions online about the longevity of different Rodinal versions. The legendary longevity of Rodinal doesn't seem to apply to many/most of the contemporary variants.