Freestyle confirms discontinuation of several Fuji products

[RattyMouse]

I personally don't care what they do with their black and white line. I like Acros and it's unique, but I don't shoot that much of it and can certainly live without it. Frankly the whole black and white world aside from Ilford could go away and I wouldn't be negatively impacted. I'd change a few products, but I could live happily with Ilford for black and white.

But Fuji is the only game left for slide film (aside from black and white film reversal processed, or reversal processed C41 if you want that look) so it matters a lot more. And even when Kodak was around, 400X was still unique. It's a wonderful film. They've now canceled their two best ever slide films, Astia and Provia 400X.

400X pushed well to ISO800 for me, so this film was the only option to shoot transparencies at high ISO. It is amazing to think that soon it will not be available. People are all angry at Fujifilm, and I can understand why that emotion exists, but in reality, people just are not shooting enough chromes anymore. If the money were there, the supply for film would be too.

People **NEED** to shoot more slide film. PE called it awhile back that E-6 film was going to disappear soon. He's a smart guy and this latest blow against E-6 film validates his prediction.

 

[Roger Cole]

I agree. I'm going to lay in some of this. I MAY continue shooting Provia 100 while it's available once this is gone, but then again I have enough in the film fridge now that, by the time I shoot what I have of E100G and E200 and the additional 400X I buy, Provia may be gone too.

Ironically I generally prefer prints and print film but just about quitting shooting it because I felt like I could always continue with it once slides were gone, so I've been shooting all slides for color for a while.

 

[Paul Glover]

I hate to say it but never trust Fuji. They pull this stunt all the time.

Pretty much nailed my feelings on this.

I love Acros 100. It was the first black and white film I really seriously tried in medium format. I enjoyed not needing to keep a reciprocity adjustment chart taped to the back of my meter. But I'm trying to dial in a reliable shoot-develop-print workflow here, actually understand the materials I'm using, and I don't like the idea that I might settle on Acros only for Fuji to drop it without warning. I can't afford to stockpile film when it gets dropped.

Plus from a pragmatic point of view, I'm much happier directing my limited budget for this stuff toward companies which are demonstrating commitment to sticking around.

I hate that I feel that way, but...

 

[AgX]

Fuji still lists this films without discontinuation notices. The information policy of Fuji is anything but the best, but still I would take anything Freestyle confirms with a heap of salt.

We had these discussion on Fuji films discontinuations before.

 

[clayne]

I personally don't care what they do with their black and white line. I like Acros and it's unique, but I don't shoot that much of it and can certainly live without it. Frankly the whole black and white world aside from Ilford could go away and I wouldn't be negatively impacted. I'd change a few products, but I could live happily with Ilford for black and white.

C'mon. Kodak? ADOX? Just because you've settled on your particular films doesn't mean you should not care if others go away.

But Fuji is the only game left for slide film (aside from black and white film reversal processed, or reversal processed C41 if you want that look) so it matters a lot more. And even when Kodak was around, 400X was still unique. It's a wonderful film. They've now canceled their two best ever slide films, Astia and Provia 400X.

I agree that it sucks they're the only e6 game in town. But this is specifically why you should care that there is more than one manufacturer of a particular medium!

 

[Roger Cole]

I don't WANT Acros or any film to go away. But I prefer to spend my money with companies that are committed to analog materials. Kodak, much as I love Tri-X and TMY-2, doesn't seem to be. I applaud Adox for making some unique materials but they don't make film that really suits my needs. I do use their MCC paper though which is excellent.

 

[perkeleellinen]

It was John Sypal's blog (that Ratty linked to) that first got me worried, then there was the new packaging announcement that didn't include Neopan 400, then the film had already been discontinued in some places and then came back (like 800Z), now the official word feels more like closure than loss.

Fellow Neopan 400 shooters - what film will be your replacement?

 

[RattyMouse]

I guess the writing was on the wall when Fujifilm announced their new film packages. Neither Provia 400X nor Neopan 400 were part of that announcement so at this point, they were marked for deletion.

http://www.fujifilm.com/news/n130322_03.html

 

[RattyMouse]

Fuji still lists this films without discontinuation notices. The information policy of Fuji is anything but the best, but still I would take anything Freestyle confirms with a heap of salt.

We had these discussion on Fuji films discontinuations before.

You did see the official notice about the cancellation of these two films, didn't you? How much more official can it get??

 

[RattyMouse]

Pretty much nailed my feelings on this.

I love Acros 100. It was the first black and white film I really seriously tried in medium format. I enjoyed not needing to keep a reciprocity adjustment chart taped to the back of my meter. But I'm trying to dial in a reliable shoot-develop-print workflow here, actually understand the materials I'm using, and I don't like the idea that I might settle on Acros only for Fuji to drop it without warning. I can't afford to stockpile film when it gets dropped.

Plus from a pragmatic point of view, I'm much happier directing my limited budget for this stuff toward companies which are demonstrating commitment to sticking around.

I hate that I feel that way, but...

What is it we expect Fujifilm to do here? Sell film for a loss? Is that what the film world has come to? Just manufacture film for a loss.

 

[zsas]

That's a prize I am NOT happy to win. I dont get it. How can ONE product line for color slide film be too much for the market to bare. Provia is the last standard all purpose color slide film. Even rationalizing down to a single product line was still too much supply, not enough demand.

And why in the world did Fujifilm commit the resources to reformulate Neopan 400 and then market a launch of this product?? What a phenomenal waste.

I am really sorry. I am using a different 400 film, but for sure would be livid should this have occurred to my fav 400 b/w.

Re chromes, is there a chrome made by Rollei? Something like a 200 film? don't know much about it, I...ummm....sorry to say, don't do chromes anymore, c41 round here...sorry to have been part of the problem....:munch:

 

[AgX]

You did see the official notice about the cancellation of these two films, didn't you? How much more official can it get??

The official note is from Fuji North-America. To my understanding there have been different distribution approaches between the different Fuji subsidiaries.

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

Well, for the first time ever I just now placed an order to assure myself a modest future supply of an announced discontinued film product.* Ordered 25 rolls of 120 Provia 400. Added to the 5 in-date frozen rolls I currently have, that's 30 total.

Combined (at least for now) with the still available 120 Provia 100 for most situations, and at my modest level of color use, 30 rolls of 400-speed is probably a ten year supply for me. And chances are good that the E-6 chemistry will also be discontinued before then anyway. At least at that time I can presumably also order up enough home processing kit to finish off my remaining rolls, if they haven't all been cosmic-rayed to death beforehand.

Unless someone like Harman eventually steps in, or a Harman partnership together with someone else, as Matt speculated in an earlier post, I'm pretty convinced that color film photography of all types will die off completely within my lifetime.

It's the unavoidable Tyranny of the Bell Curve. Most available consumer money clusters around the mean of the normal distribution, so most of the targeted consumer products do likewise. Step too far away from that mean, as we here all have done, and your product choices dwindle very, very quickly. It's the price to be paid for not running with the herd.

Heck, not too long ago I read an advertisement (by Sony, if I remember correctly) that was literally begging the photographic consumer to consider using "real cameras" with which to make their photos. The "real cameras" were Sony digital point-and-shoots, as opposed to the not-mentioned-but-inferred smartphones.

So already the technology that triggered the film crisis has itself begun to drift dangerously away from that same mean.

Ken

* Kodachrome doesn't count since the unique processing also died with it, so there was no point in securing future supplies.

 

[RattyMouse]

The official note is from Fuji North-America. To my understanding there have been different distribution approaches between the different Fuji subsidiaries.

I read this all of the stated films will cease production. Fujifilm TOKYO announces their discontinuation. That means they cannot be sold anywhere, not just North America.

 

[RattyMouse]

Well, for the first time ever I just now placed an order to assure myself a modest future supply of an announced discontinued film product.* Ordered 25 rolls of 120 Provia 400. Added to the 5 in-date frozen rolls I currently have, that's 30 total.

I just did my first hoarding too. I bought 20 boxes of Neopan 400. Every chance I get near my film shop I'm going to buy 10 boxes until he has no more.

 

[Paul Glover]

What is it we expect Fujifilm to do here? Sell film for a loss? Is that what the film world has come to? Just manufacture film for a loss.

Of course not. How exactly would that help anyone?

The problem isn't discontinuing lines that are making a loss. That's just good business sense. The problem is the confusion around every single time they cancel a product. The problem is that a lot of people don't trust them, and that hasn't just sprung up out of nowhere; *something* Fuji is doing has caused that. The problem is that they now have almost no presence left in b&w films. That doesn't inspire confidence, it feels more like a last desperate rearguard action of a division Fuji don't really need to keep around.

Compare to Ilford who don't cause those same trust issues.

 

[RattyMouse]

Of course not. How exactly would that help anyone?

The problem isn't discontinuing lines that are making a loss. That's just good business sense. The problem is the confusion around every single time they cancel a product. The problem is that a lot of people don't trust them, and that hasn't just sprung up out of nowhere; *something* Fuji is doing has caused that. The problem is that they now have almost no presence left in b&w films. That doesn't inspire confidence, it feels more like a last desperate rearguard action of a division Fuji don't really need to keep around.

Compare to Ilford who don't cause those same trust issues.

EVERY Japanese/Asian company has communication issues. I live in work in Asia and communication is by far, the weakest aspect of life here. Getting a straight story out of anyone is like pulling teeth.

I dont see any confusion here regarding the canceled products. They list what is canceled and what is a "replacement". The confusion comes from people who refuse to believe it, even in the face of a published announcement!!

What Fujifilm makes confusing is what films are still available! Go to www.fujifilm.com. Look at their film page. No ACROS to be found there at all!! All kinds of films are missing. It's just embarrassing how neglected Fujifilm's film page is. How much money does it take to have an up to date film page? Nothing.

 

[clayne]

High context societies have interesting ways of communicating. I often wonder if discontinuation is considered a failure - and hence they hem-haw back and forth on it until it can no longer be avoided. One thing's for sure: their speciality surely isn't clarity.

 

[RattyMouse]

High context societies have interesting ways of communicating. I often wonder if discontinuation is considered a failure - and hence they hem-haw back and forth on it until it can no longer be avoided. One thing's for sure: their speciality surely isn't clarity.

Absolutely! Failure represents a loss of "face" and is to be avoided at ALL costs. If Fujifilm considers discontinuing a film a failure, then that is a massive blow to them.

 

[AgX]

Acros and all the other films in question here are still listed by Fuji. As stated above the communication by Fuji is midiocre, and everyone in this thread can chose a statement he likes. The funny thing about this thread that it is even about a statement by Freestyle not by Fuji...

 

[clayne]

Absolutely! Failure represents a loss of "face" and is to be avoided at ALL costs. If Fujifilm considers discontinuing a film a failure, then that is a massive blow to them.

Yep, exactly what I meant.

I'm going to presume you're a westerner in China and that you've banged your head against a wall multiple times upon coming to terms with "face", eh? Great way to collectively hold back the entire society due to a baked in insecurity of looking wrong, or losing respect, isn't it? I have some fundamental disagreements with how "face" is handled in high-context societies. I think it takes more courage to admit wrong and to volunteer loss of face - but in the end one is usually respected more for admitting wrong. I don't get why they can't get over this hang-up. It's holding them back.

 

[Slixtiesix]

Oh no, not Provia 400X! After the loss of Astia this will make me stop shooting slide film altogether...

 

[Rudeofus]

Being a slide shooter myself I was all over Provia 400X when it was introduced. While I loved the colors of E100VS, these two extra stops of speed often gave me an opportunity to shoot when 100 speed film would give unacceptable exposure times. It developed and scanned great, so for a long time it was my goto film for free hand shooting from fall to spring. I easily handled pushing to EI1600, too.

I did encounter some issues with this strategy, though: when it's darker, contrast is either very low and dull, or very high and can't easily be fixed with on camera flash. Also, the color temperature of light was anything but 5500K, and the resulting images had such a strong color cast that not even hybrid processing could fix it.

As a result, I still shoot slide film when light is good, but as soon as I need ISO200 or more, it's negative film for me, mostly Portra 400 and Superia X-Tra 400/800.

People in business say: "a market without competition isn't", and the sad demise of Provia 400X seems to confirm that. I still commend Fuji for bringing this great film to market, and will likely throw a stash of it into my (already overloaded) freezer.

 

[TheToadMen]

Over here in New Zealand they are asking for $32US for a roll of any slides so it's not helping. Maybe if they rip people off even for few customers maybe they make more profit than selling more at a lower price. I import film like many here but I also export to the USA for development. But checked online, $16US for a roll of Provia 400X is getting expensive even by USA standards.

I can still get a box with 5 roll films 120 Provia 400 for EURO 33 (about USD 45 ??) overhere in Europe. That would be USD 9 a piece including VAT.

Shipping to New Zealand from The Netherlands would be USD 35 insured, max. 2 kilogram. If I would send you 5 boxes, that would be 5x45 + 33 = 258 (plus import duties if applied in NZ).
That would be about USD 10 per film. So asking USD 33 for one single roll?

(I'm going to order myself a nice stash shortly and would be willing to send some to you at no extra charges ...)

 

[RattyMouse]

Yep, exactly what I meant.

I'm going to presume you're a westerner in China and that you've banged your head against a wall multiple times upon coming to terms with "face", eh? Great way to collectively hold back the entire society due to a baked in insecurity of looking wrong, or losing respect, isn't it? I have some fundamental disagreements with how "face" is handled in high-context societies. I think it takes more courage to admit wrong and to volunteer loss of face - but in the end one is usually respected more for admitting wrong. I don't get why they can't get over this hang-up. It's holding them back.

Yep, I'm an American living in China. I could live my whole life here and never get used to the idea that one must maintain "face" at any cost.