Freestyle confirms discontinuation of several Fuji products

[Gadfly_71]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but Freestyle just posted a confirmation of the discontinuation of several Fuji products, including Provia 400X.

Here's the letter they posted:


Any ideas for 400 speed slide film in 120?

 

[pentaxuser]

It just seem strange to me if this announcement means the end of production of Fuji Neopan 400 world-wide given the quite recent announcement of the resurrection of this film at the 2012 Photokina exhibition in Germany. There was a long thread on this here on APUG. Then I notice that the announcement attached is from Fuji Film N America

So maybe this affects the future of these films for N America and not the end of production world-wide.

Certainly in Neopan 400's case it seem very strange that it will cease completely when it hasn't been long revived.

pentaxuser

 

[brianmquinn]

Perhaps a batch of Neopan 400 was made after it was off the market for a while. The existing stocks would be gone and if it still sold slow then Fuji decided that there was no future for it. As for Provia 400X well I can't say how sad I am. The loss of Kodachrome was bad this was my last hope to keep me shooting E6. I really hate the over saturated lower speed offerings. I guess it will be all B&W film or digital color for me from now on.

 

[Chris G]

For what it is worth... I have been shooting Portra 160 and 400 in 120 and I really like them. Its not Provia nor E6 but still... and I certainly wouldn't jump ship to digital with out giving them a go.

 

[clayne]

1000 cuts...

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

Gosh darn it! I had a strong feeling that buzz from Photokina on Neopan 400 was iffy...

 

[brianmquinn]

Thanks for the warning. I just ordered a large and (LAST?) batch of 400X. I hope you are wrong but just in case I did the buy.

 

[clayne]

Gosh darn it! I had a strong feeling that buzz from Photokina on Neopan 400 was iffy...

I hate to say it but never trust Fuji. They pull this stunt all the time.

 

[zsas]

Gott'a give props to Ratty Mouse here....think a few months ago he smelled, errrr, a rat.....

Think he wins the "discontinuance pool"


Enjoy the $5000 cash prize Ratty!

 

[zsas]

^ Ratty scoured the Internet near and far and found the tea leaves months ago...
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)


In all seriousness, sorry folks who've been impacted! I can't stand when any stock/paper/chem goes down....

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

Black and white always was my first love anyway. But maybe when all of the legacy dinosaurs of color coating have gone extinct there might be enough of a remaining market niche for someone like Harman to take an E-6 gamble. They've certainly got the modern facilities and coating expertise. And the right size. And you can't tell me that the possibility hasn't been at least whispered about in strategy meetings, even if public denial would be swift and sure.

Ken

 

[MattKing]

Black and white always was my first love anyway. But maybe when all of the legacy dinosaurs of color coating have gone extinct there might be enough of a remaining market niche for someone like Harman to take an E-6 gamble. They've certainly got the modern facilities and coating expertise. And the right size. And you can't tell me that the possibility hasn't been at least whispered about in strategy meetings, even if public denial would be swift and sure.

Ken

More likely, someone else may contract with Harman to produce the film for them.

 

[clayne]

Black and white always was my first love anyway. But maybe when all of the legacy dinosaurs of color coating have gone extinct there might be enough of a remaining market niche for someone like Harman to take an E-6 gamble. They've certainly got the modern facilities and coating expertise. And the right size. And you can't tell me that the possibility hasn't been at least whispered about in strategy meetings, even if public denial would be swift and sure.

Ken

You do realize there's mountains of IP and development/experience being lost if Fuji/Kodak were to ditch all of their E-6 though right? Kodak's already there - although I hope they still have the ability to remanufacture if necessary. If you like E-6, shoot it. Maybe that's the problem, not enough people shooting color, or too many people thinking "oh I'll just digital for that."

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

You do realize there's mountains of IP and development/experience being lost if Fuji/Kodak were to ditch all of their E-6 though right? Kodak's already there - although I hope they still have the ability to remanufacture if necessary. If you like E-6, shoot it. Maybe that's the problem, not enough people shooting color, or too many people thinking "oh I'll just digital for that."

Yes, I do. But I also realize the futility of expecting the ~65,000 members of APUG to pick up the slack on the consumption side of the equation such that they would replace the billions of consumers required by Kodak/Fuji to keep their coating lines operating at any reasonable level of efficiency.

Who's got the calculator? How many times does 65,000 divide into a couple of billion? And how many times have we heard that Kodak can produce enough film product in ten seconds to supply current world demand for ten years? There is no way out of from either one of these calculations, no matter how many time the equal key is pressed.

Except perhaps to do as Mirko at ADOX is apparently trying to do. Save as much expertise and production equipment as you can, then reengineer the product down to realistically salable micro-production volumes, and have a go at it from there.

This is where the future survival of all film (and paper) lies. Unless you can figure out how to get each of those 65,000 APUG members to start buying and shooting master roll quantities of these products. And do it fast!

Ken

 

[clayne]

65,000 would be a decent chunk of people though in it's own right - *in the current market*. Honestly I do't think billions of people have been shooting slide film for atleast the last 20 years. Think about how many people we have on the planet, how many of those actually use a camera, and how many went past color negative, or even did anything with said camera more than once a year.

We'll never get real figures, sadly.

I still shoot E-6 though, I've purchased multiple quantities of 135, 120, and 4x5 from Freestyle in the near past as well. Unfortunately I just cannot afford 8x10, nor do I shoot it in any emulsion (and this saddens me, because it means I'll never be able to see an 8x10 transparency of my own).

 

[Tom Kershaw]

Ken,

How colour materials can be produced at a smaller scale is an interesting question...

Tom

 

[lxdude]

Ken-
Kodak and Fuji do not need billions of customers, but they do need millions. And I have never heard that Kodak can produce enough in ten seconds to meet world demand for ten years.

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

Ken-
Kodak and Fuji do not need billions of customers, but they do need millions. And I have never heard that Kodak can produce enough in ten seconds to meet world demand for ten years.

Hyperbole usually makes the point more effectively. But whether it's billions or millions, ten seconds or ten days, the fundamental point remains. If the point wasn't valid, the film manufacturing industry wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.

Ken

 

[lxdude]

Ok, I didn't catch the hyperbole. Your point is of course valid.

 

[rayonline_nz]

Provia 400X didn't surprised me. I thought that generally speaking film costs are getting so expensive fewer people would need fast film. I said it before but some peiople dismissed that saying 400 slides was a advantage Fuji had.

Over here in New Zealand they are asking for $32US for a roll of any slides so it's not helping. Maybe if they rip people off even for few customers maybe they make more profit than selling more at a lower price. I import film like many here but I also export to the USA for development. But checked online, $16US for a roll of Provia 400X is getting expensive even by USA standards.

As a average Joe hobbyist. I admit that film is so expensive that I am shooting fewer, more carefully. For my daily shots etc ... I am shooting digital but might consider b/w. But I have only considered Kodak and Ilford. Maybe Fuji is considering pulling out of b/w altogether. Could also be that in the print film, that they might consolidate to Superia 800 which is what they are using for disposables in Asia at least.

 

[clayne]

I've noticed that in both NZ and AUS they just try to rip you off on film prices in general. Any NZ/AUS people should highly be considering Freestyle and bulk purchases because the merchants are ripping you off!

 

[RattyMouse]

Gott'a give props to Ratty Mouse here....think a few months ago he smelled, errrr, a rat.....

Think he wins the "discontinuance pool"


Enjoy the $5000 cash prize Ratty!

That's a prize I am NOT happy to win. I dont get it. How can ONE product line for color slide film be too much for the market to bare. Provia is the last standard all purpose color slide film. Even rationalizing down to a single product line was still too much supply, not enough demand.

And why in the world did Fujifilm commit the resources to reformulate Neopan 400 and then market a launch of this product?? What a phenomenal waste.

 

[Roger Cole]

I'll order some 400X, to go along with my frozen stock of E100G, E200 and Precisa, but once it's gone I'm done with E6. It's down to oversaturated and contrasty Velvia and over contrasty Provia, in 50 and 100. No thanks. So long E6 it was good to know you.

I may shoot some black and white slides for projection though.

 

[IndifferentCamera]

Regardless of what they say, I don't think Fuji(film) care about this small section of their market. I believe they are doing fine in the 'anti-aging' face cream sector, as well as leica-style digicams.

I was disappointed when they discontinued Pro160c, Reala, and now that they have 'officially' dropped Neopan 400, after putting out what I regard as disinformation to promote stock depletion, I am just disgusted.

Surely all the film-camera users that appear on Tokyo Camera Style could have helped sustain a domestic demand for a 400 speed monochrome film?

What's the point of staying with their C41 B&W and Acros? It's conflicting, to say the least.

The mis/dis/information around Neopan 400 reminds me of that 'Scumbag Steve' meme.

Jon

 

[Roger Cole]

I personally don't care what they do with their black and white line. I like Acros and it's unique, but I don't shoot that much of it and can certainly live without it. Frankly the whole black and white world aside from Ilford could go away and I wouldn't be negatively impacted. I'd change a few products, but I could live happily with Ilford for black and white.

But Fuji is the only game left for slide film (aside from black and white film reversal processed, or reversal processed C41 if you want that look) so it matters a lot more. And even when Kodak was around, 400X was still unique. It's a wonderful film. They've now canceled their two best ever slide films, Astia and Provia 400X.