Is there developer in the emulsion?
Freestyle Carries New Single-Weight Paper
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I dont think freestyle would sell a product with obvious defects.
Yeah, I've used it. I paid a poor, starving student at NESOP $10 for 10 sheets.
Granted, I only had 10 sheets with which to test the stuff, but I've used a thousand sheets of paper, or so, in the past couple years, so I know how to test a paper reasonably well.
1) Dmax of untoned, air-dried sheets is very poor
2) Edges are extremely susceptible to damage
3) Emulsion is very susceptible to scratching
4) Seems very susceptible to chemical fogging after just a couple minutes in Dektol 1:3. Note that I did the testing in a friend's darkroom that was equipped with a red safe light.
5) Medium-toe
6) Paper base was riddled (I mean, lots folks) with small defects (mostly small pits)
No idea how it tones.
My recommendation: A-VOID.
aldevo, how long ago was this?
BTW, DW also. IIRC through 20x24. SW through 11x14.
That RED only is a real puzzle. That means the emulsion
is GREEN sensitive. Green only or is Blue included. That
would make it a VC paper without the VC. Never heard
or read of such a thing; a Green or Green and Blue
sensitive Graded paper emulsion.
Good to see some positive reviews. With Kodak, Agfa,
and Forte out of the paper business and others doubling
and tripling up on what's in the package, I think it good
of Freestyle to go out on the limb and introduce
additional variety to the market place.
BTW, is that Slavich paper being rebadge, relabled,
or re-package; Yet? I mean what does it take? A rich
Russian, some guy who knows coating, emulsions, and
papers, add a coating plant with too much down time
and we've got a new paper on the market.
Perhaps all PE needs is backing? PE paper. I'll take 10%
off the top.
All that is Mass production. Dan- Joined
- Apr 21, 2004
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Interesting. I jsut bought a pack of it and have wonderful results. Deep rich black and excellent tonal seperation. Looks to me you negs are probably not good.
Defects? I been through 25 sheets so far and had 0 defects. Not a one zip.
This paper is excellent and I am not a student.
Fogging? Nope you not at all. Ansco 130 3 minutes in developer 0 fogging. 30 sec in stop and 2 min in fix not to mention the time exposing with dodging a burning.
Are you sure you tried the paper? And did you use a rd light with a 15 watt max bulb?
I have no idea what you are talking about at all and this PAPER is wonderful.
One I go through 100 sheets I will make a decision but so far 25 sheets and no problems.
The paper was obtained 10 days ago. The tests were performed on Saturday.
Here is the exact product tested:
http://www.freestylephoto.biz/sc_prod.php?cat_id=&pid=1000002210
The negs used for the test printed to my satisfaction on Forte Polygrade VC FB using a Multigrade #3 on a condenser head enlarger. Forte Polygrade V VC FB is really about a # 2 1/2 using this filter and lighting setup. So using a Grade #2 isn't that far removed from the ideal. In theory.
The negs are not the problem. They've been printed on several different papers and are, effectively, "reference" negs for this sort of thing. In other words, they are negatives with a useful density range that I know I have printed successfully with other papers. I use the neg in conjunction with my friend's reflection densitometer to match low and high values to assess gradation tendencies across the paper. I didn't go so far as to do this for this particular test (I pretty much flunked the paper) - but you get the idea.
The enlarger model and light source used for the Slavitch test were the same make and model as used to print on Forte. The actual enlargers were physically different, however. The setup was abolutely functioning correctly during the test session, because other papers (Varycon) were used without issue.
The safe light was, approximately, 15 feet from the paper. And it was a 12W light. The safelight worked absolutely fine with Fotokemika Varycon VC FB used not 20 minutes later (Varycon is a good paper, btw, but that's another story) - and that paper also requires a red safelight.
Regarding the chemical fogging...
I did the test by cutting the paper into 6 strips and printing the same portion of the negative and used an identical exposure for each strip. The strips were then developed at 6 different intervals, varying by 30 seconds, encompassing a range of 1 1/2 - 4 minutes. Each strip was exposed and developed prior to exposure of the next strip. The strips were stored in the lightight packaging and box prior to exposure. At above 2 1/2 minutes development, there is evidence of slight fogging which grew worse. I have seen chemical fogging with Foma papers in certain developers - but not until developing for at least 4 minutes.
Regarding the physical defects...
They are very, very slight - but they are there and in large numbers. The paper was transported from NESOP and to the test area in a Forte Polygrade V VC FB box. The sheets were stored in the light-tight plastic packaging. They were stored with about 55 sheets of Polygrade, but that won't cause pitting.
I have contacted the student and the incident is being reported to Freestyle. The student didn't use any of the paper because, frankly, she didn't realize that she had purchased graded paper!
I haven't heard back from the student. If the student's experience is the same as mine - and she's willing to relinquish the box - then I'll offer to ship the paper back to Freestyle for investigation - assuming they are willing to pay for the shipping.
It's possible this is an isolated incident, but I'm not touching this stuff for now.
Here is the exact product tested:
http://www.freestylephoto.biz/sc_prod.php?cat_id=&pid=1000002210
The negs used for the test printed to my satisfaction on Forte Polygrade VC FB using a Multigrade #3 on a condenser head enlarger. Forte Polygrade V VC FB is really about a # 2 1/2 using this filter and lighting setup. So using a Grade #2 isn't that far removed from the ideal. In theory.
The negs are not the problem. They've been printed on several different papers and are, effectively, "reference" negs for this sort of thing. In other words, they are negatives with a useful density range that I know I have printed successfully with other papers. I use the neg in conjunction with my friend's reflection densitometer to match low and high values to assess gradation tendencies across the paper. I didn't go so far as to do this for this particular test (I pretty much flunked the paper) - but you get the idea.
The enlarger model and light source used for the Slavitch test were the same make and model as used to print on Forte. The actual enlargers were physically different, however. The setup was abolutely functioning correctly during the test session, because other papers (Varycon) were used without issue.
The safe light was, approximately, 15 feet from the paper. And it was a 12W light. The safelight worked absolutely fine with Fotokemika Varycon VC FB used not 20 minutes later (Varycon is a good paper, btw, but that's another story) - and that paper also requires a red safelight.
Regarding the chemical fogging...
I did the test by cutting the paper into 6 strips and printing the same portion of the negative and used an identical exposure for each strip. The strips were then developed at 6 different intervals, varying by 30 seconds, encompassing a range of 1 1/2 - 4 minutes. Each strip was exposed and developed prior to exposure of the next strip. The strips were stored in the lightight packaging and box prior to exposure. At above 2 1/2 minutes development, there is evidence of slight fogging which grew worse. I have seen chemical fogging with Foma papers in certain developers - but not until developing for at least 4 minutes.
Regarding the physical defects...
They are very, very slight - but they are there and in large numbers. The paper was transported from NESOP and to the test area in a Forte Polygrade V VC FB box. The sheets were stored in the light-tight plastic packaging. They were stored with about 55 sheets of Polygrade, but that won't cause pitting.
I have contacted the student and the incident is being reported to Freestyle. The student didn't use any of the paper because, frankly, she didn't realize that she had purchased graded paper!
I haven't heard back from the student. If the student's experience is the same as mine - and she's willing to relinquish the box - then I'll offer to ship the paper back to Freestyle for investigation - assuming they are willing to pay for the shipping.
It's possible this is an isolated incident, but I'm not touching this stuff for now.
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Looking through my notes on the prints, I have about 23 seconds exposure at f/8 on the enlarger. The setup uses an unlighted dial timer, so it's possible the exposure is plus or minus 1 or 2 seconds.
Stop was Kodak Indicator Stop Bath for 30 seconds. The fix was Sprint Speed Fix for 4 minutes.
Anything else you need to know?
Stop was Kodak Indicator Stop Bath for 30 seconds. The fix was Sprint Speed Fix for 4 minutes.
Anything else you need to know?
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Ok, I have not tested the single weight paper but have tested the double weight paper. For the safe light test I put a piece of paper on the counter 10' from the safe light on the opposite of the safe light. A read safe light was used. I left the paper on the counter for 30 minutes with a board covering half. I developed the paper with no fogging at all.
I am using a coldlight head and I am getting black black and clean white with nice tonal separation through the midtones. The paper was ordered last week and two days ago I made the test with the paper.
If you negs are as you say then it sounds like you stated that maybe the bag was defective or maybe the student made a error and fogged the paper.
The fixer I used was Ilford Rapid Fix at 1:10 and I used the same stop bath as you.
I exposed the paper at f8 for 24 seconds using a 161 Ektanon lens, then added another 30 seconds of burning to the print to some highlight areas. Developed in developer for 3 minutes at 70F in Ansco 130 1:1 stop 30 sec and fixed 2 minutes.
No fogging occurred and no defects in the paper or emulsion.
The paper is nice and the double weight is thinner than many other double weights I have used in the past.
In regards to the Varycon paper I have to agree I am completely impressed with that paper as well for straight printing. The Varycon paper gives me the same blacks as the Slavich did...
I am using a coldlight head and I am getting black black and clean white with nice tonal separation through the midtones. The paper was ordered last week and two days ago I made the test with the paper.
If you negs are as you say then it sounds like you stated that maybe the bag was defective or maybe the student made a error and fogged the paper.
The fixer I used was Ilford Rapid Fix at 1:10 and I used the same stop bath as you.
I exposed the paper at f8 for 24 seconds using a 161 Ektanon lens, then added another 30 seconds of burning to the print to some highlight areas. Developed in developer for 3 minutes at 70F in Ansco 130 1:1 stop 30 sec and fixed 2 minutes.
No fogging occurred and no defects in the paper or emulsion.
The paper is nice and the double weight is thinner than many other double weights I have used in the past.
In regards to the Varycon paper I have to agree I am completely impressed with that paper as well for straight printing. The Varycon paper gives me the same blacks as the Slavich did...
Hi Kjs,
Yeah, I thought the student might have fogged the paper (the NESOP setup has an orange safe-light). As you may expect, I started out with a strip test that was developed for 2 minutes in the Dektol. Varied the exposure from 0-25 seconds in 5 second increments. The unexposed stuff was clean, though.
I think the Varycon had it all over the Slavitch, personally. Unfortunately, I do most of my printing at the aforementioned NESOP - which has an orange safelight and won't let me put a filter over it. Ultimately, I can't use Varycon or Slavitch.
As for toning - what did you tone it in? I've done lots (hundreds) of prints in Forte Polygrade VC FB in Kodak Rapid Selenium Toner at 1:20. After even a minute I always found that Polygrade turned purple (aubergine) and not red-brown. Sort of like Oriental Seagull.
Yeah, I thought the student might have fogged the paper (the NESOP setup has an orange safe-light). As you may expect, I started out with a strip test that was developed for 2 minutes in the Dektol. Varied the exposure from 0-25 seconds in 5 second increments. The unexposed stuff was clean, though.
I think the Varycon had it all over the Slavitch, personally. Unfortunately, I do most of my printing at the aforementioned NESOP - which has an orange safelight and won't let me put a filter over it. Ultimately, I can't use Varycon or Slavitch.
As for toning - what did you tone it in? I've done lots (hundreds) of prints in Forte Polygrade VC FB in Kodak Rapid Selenium Toner at 1:20. After even a minute I always found that Polygrade turned purple (aubergine) and not red-brown. Sort of like Oriental Seagull.
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I have to agree I also like the Varycon better also and am considering making it my standard VC paper. I am still undecided on graded paper yet. Now I just need to find a replacement for doing lith that will give me the tones and look that the Forte Warmtone did. I have a feeling I am not going to find it 
I toned it in Kodak Sel toner and I think it was 1:20.
Here is a print that was printed on Forte Polygrade VC FB and toned in Sel toner, I do not remember the dil I used:
http://www.kjsphotography.com/cart/...&n=150&c=12&i=1&p=0&z=Abstract+#3&stat=0&cit=
I call that a reddish brown but maybe it could be a purple.
The Oriental that is now being made no longer tones at all. Barely changes and I even tried it at 1:5. Nothing...
As far as the filter I ended up buying a safe light from Freestlye just to test these papers as I normally also used a amber safe light. I like the Varycon enough to make the red light a permanent addition.
I toned it in Kodak Sel toner and I think it was 1:20.
Here is a print that was printed on Forte Polygrade VC FB and toned in Sel toner, I do not remember the dil I used:
http://www.kjsphotography.com/cart/...&n=150&c=12&i=1&p=0&z=Abstract+#3&stat=0&cit=
I call that a reddish brown but maybe it could be a purple.
The Oriental that is now being made no longer tones at all. Barely changes and I even tried it at 1:5. Nothing...
As far as the filter I ended up buying a safe light from Freestlye just to test these papers as I normally also used a amber safe light. I like the Varycon enough to make the red light a permanent addition.
There is no link between the amount of silver in a paper or film and the DMAX it can achieve. Nor is there reliable information about silver content for most papers.
For example, TMY is generally acknowledged not to be a high-silver film but it's capable of producing higher DMAX then any other ISO 400 pictorial film (that's why alt-process folks gush over it).
Far too much is made of this value and it's no more relevant than the number of megapixels in a digital camera.
I have to agree I also like the Varycon better also and am considering making it my standard VC paper. I am still undecided on graded paper yet. Now I just need to find a replacement for doing lith that will give me the tones and look that the Forte Warmtone did. I have a feeling I am not going to find it
I toned it in Kodak Sel toner and I think it was 1:20.
Here is a print that was printed on Forte Polygrade VC FB and toned in Sel toner, I do not remember the dil I used:
http://www.kjsphotography.com/cart/...&n=150&c=12&i=1&p=0&z=Abstract+#3&stat=0&cit=
I call that a reddish brown but maybe it could be a purple.
The Oriental that is now being made no longer tones at all. Barely changes and I even tried it at 1:5. Nothing...
As far as the filter I ended up buying a safe light from Freestlye just to test these papers as I normally also used a amber safe light. I like the Varycon enough to make the red light a permanent addition.
Yes, that's the color I know and love
I heard a rumor at one point that Oriental is now rebranded Ilford Multigrade, but I don't know for sure. Ilford Multigrade won't change color either in much of anything.
So far I have been having good luck with this paper (SW) using amidol developer. I think that over the years they have engineered much of the variable response to developers out of the papers... I am doing side by side comparisons with Kentmere bromide and kentona.
Make sure to use only 2cc of 10% bromide (1 liter solution).
Make sure to use only 2cc of 10% bromide (1 liter solution).
Yes, that's the color I know and love
I heard a rumor at one point that Oriental is now rebranded Ilford Multigrade, but I don't know for sure. Ilford Multigrade won't change color either in much of anything.
Ilford has repeatedly stated that they no longer allowing for the rebranding of anything they produce, so I doubt very much that it is Ilford.
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I also compared it to Kentmere Bromide using Ansco 130 and it really has a beautiful look to it.
Kev
I ordered a 25 sheet pack of the Slavich DW FB Grade 3 paper 8x10. It prints beautifully with really rich blacks. I liked it enough to order a 100 sheet 8x10 box and an 11x14 box too!. I see no emulsion defects. Maybe the previous poster that had a problem with defects was a one-time quality control thing.
This is interesting. Please keep the info coming on this paper. I'm starting to get interested.
Red only safelight. But Bergger also suggests RED for
GRADED paper. So what's the score? Well I've been late
to see that there are a few reds. Kodak lists the 1A light
red, 1 red, and the 2 dark red. The 1A is one of Bergger's
recommendations for Graded paper.
Also, yellow and orange filters are no longer available. So no
wonder they are not recommended. Many years ago they were
the norm. I use them with today's papers but apparently they
are from way back. So, Slavich may work with my orange-ish
yellow safelights. Dan
Due to demand Slavich paper is not available. I am running out of fingers counting the papers I have wanted to try and missed out somehow. When I find one I like, except the 2500 sheets of AZO I have, I will be buying all I can afford. I guess that's the way it is going these days. Not sour grapes, just a reality check.
I hope that's the case. The student has let me keep the remaining paper, as it's of no use to her.
I've contacted Freestyle about the incident and have offered to ship the paper back to them for inspection if they will pay the shipping costs.
As a side-note, some Slavich paper uses German-manufactured bases (e.g their VC RC paper), while some uses Russian-manufactured bases.
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