For UK Ilford users

Anyone else interested in a large bulk purchase of Ilford films (and paper) from the US.

UK prices are now so unrealistic compared to the US that it's unfortunately no longer economic to buy Ilford films & papers from any of the UK suppliers.

FP4 120 US $3.64 (£2.25), UK £4.72 - £3.18 with discount).

Prices from the US will be lower still if the order is large enough. There will be VAT & import duty - approx 23%.

Sounds crazy but at the moment we are being ripped off.

Ian

Well, it's been like that in Canada for longer than I care to remember. Off the top of my head, b&w film, brand-name filters and Domke bags are more than double the B&H price on Toronto street. I hope you have no moral qualms about procuring the goods overseas.

Sounds crazy but at the moment we are being ripped off.

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Indeed, not much better here, even worse .......

However my favorite store doesn't even sell it.

Vilk said:

Well, it's been like that in Canada for longer than I care to remember. Off the top of my head, b&w film, brand-name filters and Domke bags are more than double the B&H price on Toronto street. I hope you have no moral qualms about procuring the goods overseas.

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I agree it's been like that as long as I've been serious about photography (late 1960's), dump products into the US market and get the volume sales, make the profit elsewhere.

Happened with Japanese cameras, HiFi, and numerous other products, from the 60's to today, it's not changed.

I have no morals when I'm being ripped off.

Ian

I would be interested in finding out where in the US you would buy from. At least Freestyle and Adorama are both more expensive than AG-Photographic, at least on paper. And this is before sales tax and import duty. Film IS cheaper but you would have to buy a LOT. Before import duties there is a difference of about 1,2€ but after duties this shrinks to about 60 ct/ 120 roll. Add $45 in shipment (minimum) and there is a break even point of 75 rolls.

That would last me at least 2 years.

r

Mats

Ian Grant said:

Sounds crazy but at the moment we are being ripped off.

Ian

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Sadly Ian, this is why I am going to run down my supply of Ilford products. I will likely be switching to Kodak T-Max 400 as my main film which will replace both FP4 Plus and HP5 Plus. I might also use either T-Max 100 or Fuji 100 Acros if I require a finer grain film for certain subjects. The Fuji film costs less than 100TMX at the moment in the UK.

Like wise with papers. Kentmere ironically is the cheapest brand of VC papers at the moment and is made by Harman Technology. Foma Varient RC and FB papers seem to be the next cheapest. Champion seem to be offering the best value photo-chemicals here such as stop-baths and fixers. Kodak Photo-Flo looks like the best value wetting agent and I will be back to making my own film and paper developers again.

Mats_A said:

there is a break even point of 75 rolls.

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I'd be buying significantly more than that just for myself

I'd rather buy in the UK or Europe but if that means we are subsidising US customers then I'll buy in the US instead.

Ian

Ian Grant said:

... FP4 120 US $3.64 (£2.25), UK £4.72 - £3.18 with discount). ... There will be VAT & import duty - approx 23%. ...

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Ian

If you add 23% to £2.25, you're at £2.77. Add shipping to that, and you can't be too far off from your UK discount price. By the way, are you sure about 3% only for import duty?

Ian Grant said:

I'd be buying significantly more than that just for myself

I'd rather buy in the UK or Europe but if that means we are subsidising US customers then I'll buy in the US instead.

Ian

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Good point, but not very convenient for me if I need to order something quickly. I don't want to buy items in bulk either.

I am lucky enough to have a small chest freezer that I use to store film (and oven chips). I am thinking of buying 200 sheets of HP5+ from the US as it is now financially practical. Here are some comparisons

HP5+ 2x100 sheets from Adorama 189.90
Postage 48.10
VAT 47.60
Import duty nil in this case as value is below £135.00 otherwise 5.3%)
Total cost 285.60
£ Sterling conversion (1$=0.62p) 177.07

200 sheets HP5+ from AG Photographic (at web price) 245.88
200 sheets of Kodak TMAX from AG Photographic 274.00
200 sheets HP5+ from Silverprint 253.92
200 sheets Kodak TMAX from Silverprint 286.52

It seems that importing from the US now makes financial sense. Normally I am against hoarding because it is better to support manufacturers on an ongoing basis but given these price differentials I feel let down by Ilford and now more inclined to look to my own pocket.

RalphLambrecht said:

Ian

If you add 23% to £2.25, you're at £2.77. Add shipping to that, and you can't be too far off from your UK discount price. By the way, are you sure about 3% only for import duty?

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Probably rounded down a little, I was thinking of the VAT & Duty I've paid on LF equipment which worked out as just under 21% before the Jan 2011 VAT increase.

Adrian's highlighted a case where the savings even after shipping and tax are in the order of 28% which is considerable.

But it does raise the question of why all the companies, Kodak as well, are selling at such low prices in the US compared to the UK and rest of the EU.

In the case of the 5"x4" HP5 example Adrian's highlighted the UK price is double what US photographers are paying for a film made in the UK. There's something very wrong there.

Ian

Keith Tapscott. said:

Sadly Ian, this is why I am going to run down my supply of Ilford products. I will likely be switching to Kodak T-Max 400 as my main film which will replace both FP4 Plus and HP5 Plus.

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It would appear that we have UK members planning to change to Kodak film and US members planning to change to Ilford!


Steve.

Steve Smith said:

It would appear that we have UK members planning to change to Kodak film and US members planning to change to Ilford!


Steve.

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Steve, as much as I like Ilford films and papers, I feel that their loyal UK customers are being ripped off with their current prices.

Purchasing 5x4" 100 sheet boxes of Ilford FP4+ from the USA, works out to be exactly 49% cheaper than if I purchased from my local store.

This is a delivery to my doorstep price. If I did a delivery to my doorstep from my local dealer, I have to cough up another $20.00.

Quite unbelievable price difference.

The Australian importer of Ilford products has not one mention of Ilford Film anywhere on their website.

In fact it appears they actively discourage film use, I have been personally advised to purchase some Ilford paper and film products from overseas whilst at the importers stand at a Photo Marketing Association (PMA) trade and consumer show in Melbourne in 2007, I didn't bother to attend the 2010 show in Melbourne.

Astounding advice!

Go for it Ian.

Mick.

It's the cost of paper that hurts the most and that's probably the least cost-effective product to ship/import owing to the weight.
The cost of film is, for my application and throughput, relatively insignificant. A roll of 35mm or 120 equates to about half a gallon of petrol or a pint of Guinness, but lasts a lot longer! Can't be bad!
Also, for any purchase of photographic materials from abroad (which I've done on a couple of occasions) I can't help wondering what temperatures, X-rays, etc. it's been subjected to en route, especially in these days of terrorist paranoia!
Steve

Keith Tapscott. said:

Steve, as much as I like Ilford films and papers, I feel that their loyal UK customers are being ripped off with their current prices.

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I know. Even Seven Day Shop have noticed: http://www.7dayshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=777_1&products_id=6081

WE WOULD LIKE TO SUGGEST THAT YOU SWITCH TO KODAK BLACK & WHITE FILM - IT OFFERS MUCH BETTER VALUE!

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Steve.

I agree Ian,

Here in Austria, with 20% VAT on top of the higher European price structure, paper costs are prohibitive and film is unrealistically high.

The US has the advantage of no tax (at least on mail order to Oregon which has no sales tax) and the discount prices due to the high-volume market. Plus, there is likely a lot less overhead for dealers. I think we can blame the European tax structure in part (natural gas is twice as high here in Europe as in the US as well...).

Since I travel regularly to the US, I just toss a few boxes of 4x5 film in my carry on each time I return (no, never a problem with x-rays). I've even taken to packing dry chemicals in my luggage (no problems with TSA yet, even with ferricyanide and PMK kits).

As for paper, I did a bit of figuring some years ago and determined that the difference in paper and chemical prices for the volume I print more than paid for my plane ticket to go back to the US to print, which is what I do. I have a full darkroom there with enlargers etc. Here in Vienna, I am only equipped to develop negatives, which I transport back to the States to print.

I'd love to be able to print here, especially since I spend 7-8 months a year here now and the hiatus from printing is not ideal, but getting set up here is prohibitive.

I often wonder how my colleagues here in Europe manage; I'd estimate that the cost of LF photography is 50-100% more here in Austria than in the States.

Best,

Doremus Scudder
www.DoremusScudder.com

Buying in the UK Ilford films are still cheaper than Kodak from the two main suppliers I use, and there's a Kodak price increase due shortly.

It's not so much changing brand as changing where I buy film, cash is tight and loyalty to current suppliers goes out of the window when the US/UK price differential is so large.

I notice APUG members in mainland Europe also complaining that Ilford Warmtone is twice the US price, and Mick Fagan along with many other Australians now buy from the US as well, see a current post by Fleath.

Ian

Can’t agree more with everything that’s been said. When I stocked up on the last batch of neopan 400 a couple of months ago I think I only paid £2.30 a roll for 120.

Paul Green said:

Can’t agree more with everything that’s been said. When I stocked up on the last batch of neopan 400 a couple of months ago I think I only paid £2.30 a roll for 120.

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£2.30 per roll is an unrealistically low price. ILFORD film was around that price level 5 or 6 years ago. The major UK / USA saving seems to be on sheet film. However when buying within the UK we do have the assurance of fresh stock and limited opportunity for the film to be exposed to adverse conditions.

Tom

Tom Kershaw said:

£2.30 per roll is an unrealistically low price. ILFORD film was around that price level 5 or 6 years ago. The major UK / USA saving seems to be on sheet film. However when buying within the UK we do have the assurance of fresh stock and limited opportunity for the film to be exposed to adverse conditions.

Tom

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I've just finished 2 100 sheet boxes of HP5+ bought from the US, it's been posted US/UK. flown to Turkey, been scanned a few times going on board cruise ships, stored here in Turkey over 3 summers all with no problems. Oh and it was short dated - Jan 2008. (Bought via LF forum).

The US stocks are fresh so that's not an issue to worry about.

Ian

Ian Grant said:

I've just finished 2 100 sheet boxes of HP5+ bought from the US, it's been posted US/UK. flown to Turkey, been scanned a few times going on board cruise ships, stored here in Turkey over 3 summers all with no problems. Oh and it was short dated - Jan 2008.

The US stocks are fresh so that's not an issue to worry about.

Ian

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The thought of photo materials being X-rayed has put me off buying from abroad. It seems from your post that they are more durable than I imagined.

I bought 50 rolls of Verichrome Pan from B&H in 2000. A large proportion are still in my freezer and work just fine.

Ian Grant said:

UK prices are now so unrealistic compared to the US that it's unfortunately no longer economic to buy Ilford films & papers from any of the UK suppliers.

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Well... I'm buying in the UK because mainland Europe prices are 50-100% higher, for Ilford paper at least. For film, the difference isn't that big.

So, mainland European ("me", he said) buys Ilford paper in the UK, UK residents plan to buy Ilford paper in the US?
(Maybe I should do the same, but not having the hassle with customs and import taxes is worth something to me.)

Have you tried macodirect.de? Pretty good prices on B&W.