Fomapan 200 Creative

[titrisol]

Anyone developed Fomapan creative 200 in Rodinal or DDX?
Any reccomendations?

 

[jandc]

"I question the logic of your business analysis.

Efke vs Foma: Foma sells to many distributors in the US; Efke sells to 1. "

Not exactly true. Foma signed an exclusive deal with Freestyle for the USA. Foma will not sell to any other US retailers, they will refer you to Freestyle. We carry Foma products because we import them from our German partner and do not buy direct from Foma. I assume you also feel the same way about Freestyles exclusive deal with Kentmere too?

"Efke and Foma probably have similar manufacturing costs, as both manufacturers are located in Eastern Europe."

As the Czech republic is now in the European Union and Foma has to abide with all their laws their costs are increasing. In addition their coating facilities are less advanced than some of the other Eastern manufacturers.

"Efke distributes through a single outlet and prices at $3.51 per roll."

Efke 35mm KB100 sells for $3.39. The 120 for $3.09. Where does $3.51 come from? To compare apples to apples Freestyle sells Foma branded Foma 100 for $3.99 per roll and the Foma 100 120 for $3.49 per roll.

"Arista.edu prices at $1.29 (Foma private label), sells more, produces more, and can keep unit costs lower."

The production costs do not get lower with large production in these old factories. Working 24/7 to produce a large order results in increased costs.

"APX25 is gone because the number of rolls dropped below a production run."

APX 25 is gone because the company decided it was not worth it to produce the film. Pure business decision. If they wanted to they could have produced this film and cold stored it for years in perfect condition.

"I've heard that Efke and Foma sell for about the same price overseas"

Actually Foma has been selling their films at a low ball price even in Europe. Following the Agfa model of selling film.

"apx100 can be purchased for under $2.00 a roll with even higher manufacturing costs."

Foma and Agfa's manufacturing costs are probably about the same. It's the need to generate cash fast that drives their pricing. As has already been pointed out this is the same logic Ilford and Forte used which in the end made their situation worse.

"Maybe 1.39 is the price point needed to keep the roll sales at a level that can support a production run."

At $1.39 a roll nobody is making a whole lot of money if any. Companies price things to levels for various reasons. Sometimes making money now is not the overriding factor. The amusing thing is that the more of this film is sold at $1.29 the worse Foma's position will likely get.

"Ignoring the rule of economies of scale may slowly drive Efke out of production in the long term."

Efke is geared to produce in small quantities on small production lines. Economies of scale only work in a world that has the capacity to consume your scaled up volumes. Last time I looked B&W film and paper are not being consumed in the huge quantities anymore that justify large factories producing tens of thousands of square meters per run.


"By distributing through only one outlet, Efke reduced roll sales may drop below the volume for a production run"

The size of an Efke production run is much smaller than the size of a Foma run. Both are smaller than the size of an Agfa or Kodak run. You can't use the production size of factory A to judge the efficiencies of factory B. Also as stated at the top Both companies have a single outlet distributing them in the USA.

 

[jandc]

Anyone developed Fomapan creative 200 in Rodinal or DDX?
Any reccomendations?

Rodinal 1:50 for 8 minuites

 

[titrisol]

Thanks JON!

Rodinal 1:50 for 8 minuites

 

[richardmellor]

aristia.edu ultra /fomapan100

I thought this picture might be of interest to members .
this is the same film sold as aristia.edu.ultra by freestyle [fomapan 100}
it sells for 1.29 a roll


.http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=2903979

 

[titrisol]

An excellent job, however it says nothing about how the film was exposed/processed though

 

[Tom Hoskinson]

An excellent job, however it says nothing about how the film was exposed/processed though

In response to a question about processing and printing, the photographer indicated that he developed in FX-11, then scanned the neg with a Nikon 8000ED. He did not give the EI or SBR and did not give developing information.

I wonder why (since he used an image processing program) he did not spot out the horizontal black linear feature on her left eyelid.

 

[m_liddell]

I thought this picture might be of interest to members .
this is the same film sold as aristia.edu.ultra by freestyle [fomapan 100}
it sells for 1.29 a roll


.http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=2903979

The photographer Igor Amelkovich seesm to use loads of different films but I can't really see the difference between those shot with acros or forma! I guess it could be more evident in the print.

 

[Tom Hoskinson]

The photographer Igor Amelkovich seesm to use loads of different films but I can't really see the difference between those shot with acros or forma! I guess it could be more evident in the print.

If there ever was an analog print. Igor Amelkovich has stated that he scans his negs with a Nikon 8000 ED film scanner.

 

[m_liddell]

If there ever was an analog print. Igor Amelkovich has stated that he scans his negs with a Nikon 8000 ED film scanner.

But even if the film is scanned the characteristics of the film are still evident in a digital print.

 

[rshepard]

Just out of curiosity: where did you take this sample shot? It's really very nice, but doesn't look like a port of New York I recognize.

Thanks,

Rich

 

[Tom Hoskinson]

But even if the film is scanned the characteristics of the film are still evident in a digital print.

The subject image is a negative scan, not a digital print or a scan of a digital print.

In any case, I am skeptical that you could tell me the film brand or its sensitometric characteristics (if you didn't know already) from the scan.

 

[titrisol]

Rodinal 1+50 6 minutes @80F gave pretty good lookng negatives for the film exposed as 125.
3 changes of water presoak, 10s/min agitation.

Those negs are just dry, have a bluish tinge that a sulfite bath coudn't eliminate. Thye look good, the grain seems small, the tonality very good and there is plenty of shadow detail.
Will look at them through the enlarger tonight and maybe I'll have some darkroom time during the week

 

[m_liddell]

The subject image is a negative scan, not a digital print or a scan of a digital print.

In any case, I am skeptical that you could tell me the film brand or its sensitometric characteristics (if you didn't know already) from the scan.

So after scanning all films look identical?

 

[Tom Hoskinson]

So after scanning all films look identical?

Depends on the film - and scanner. I have a Nikon Super Coolscan 8000 ED film scanner (16mm thru 6cm film) and a Microtek Scanmaker i900 (up to 8x10 film). These scanners impose their own personality on the images they scan.

The point is that you end up with a processed digital image (digitally processed to a greater or lesser extent, depending on the scanner settings) . The as-scanned output of my two scanners is quite different, even with both scanners set up to do no image enhancement.

An optical microscope and a transmission color densitometer are my basic tools for negative evaluation (I use staining and tanning developers). Of course, the ultimate test is the print you make.

BTW, as I stated in a previous post, I think that the scanned image in question is an excellent one. However, I think this photographer would produce excellent images pretty much independent of the film brand used.

It's not the wand, it's the magician.

 

[Paul Howell]

Jay,

Nice work.

 

[michele d]

Fomapan and kodak 1HC 110

Hi I was wondering if you have any suggestion for time at 20ºC for Fomapan with Kodak HC110 coz I cannae find any chart for that specific combination.

Good Morning, Jennifer,

I've tried Fomapan 200 with generally good results. I've used HC-110B and T-Max as developers; I think I'll go with HC-110 just because it's cheaper. I concur with most of the comments above; regarding the bluish tinge: even after using a pre-soak and doing a fairly lengthy wash, I can't get rid of it. The good news is that it seems to cause abolutely no problems when printing, so I don't worry about it.

I would note that my only experience using Fomapan 200 comes from some 120 rolls. I did not notice the graininess that David refers to, but that may be because I shot 6 x 6 and 6 x 7 negatives enlarged to no more than 11 x 14. There are two things which annoy me about Fomapan 200. The first is the curling tendency, which is significant enough that I have temporarily reverse-curled the processed film for a day or two before trying to contact it. The second is that the film base is so tough that it takes more effort than usual to get the center spike on a Kinderman reel to puncture it (ditto a film clip) and the film base is also much more flexible than my usual Kodak and Ilford choices, so getting the film started on a SS reel is a little trickier than I'm used to.

I'm not about to give up T-Max 100, but even with its quirks, Fomapan 200 is a decent film, especially considering the bargain price from J and C.

Konical

 

[RobertV]

The production of Fomapan Creative 200 is ceased (November 2009) due to production problems and in the mean time removed from the Foma website.

 

[rpsawin]

Hi I was wondering if you have any suggestion for time at 20ºC for Fomapan with Kodak HC110 coz I cannae find any chart for that specific combination.

Per FOMA PAN 200 PDF:

Foma B&W film is compatible with all major processing systems. Recommended developing times are
for normal contrast negatives (based on intermittent agitation.) All developing times are standardized
for 68°F / 20°C. Your developing time may vary based on environment and equipment used.
DEVELOPER DILUTION TIME @ 68°F / 20°C
Arista® 76 Powder Stock 5 - 6
Arista® 76 Powder 1:1 8 - 9
Arista® Premium Powder Stock 7
Arista® Premium Powder 1:1 8
Arista® Liquid Film Developer Working Solution 7 1/2
Arista® Premium Liquid Developer 1:9 7 1/2
Marathon® Film Developer 1:9 5
Ilford ID-11, Kodak D-76 Stock 5 - 6
Ilford ID-11, Kodak D-76 1:1 8 - 9
Kodak XTOL (Straight) 6
Kodak TMAX Developer 1:4 5 - 6
Kodak HC 110 1:31 NR
Agfa Rodinal 1:25 5
Recommended Agitation: Agitate continuously for first 30 seconds of development, then provide agitation
of 5 to 7 inversion cycles for 5 seconds every 30 seconds for remainder of development time.
Where continuous agitation is used for rotary processor, reduce the developing times by 15%.
Development times may need adjusting to suit individual processing systems and working practices.
If an established system is producing good results, adjust the recommended development times until
the desired contrast is obtained.
This material will be replaced if found defective in manufacture, labeling or packaging. Except for
such replacement, this product is sold without warranty or other liability. Developer and film manufacturers
can and do change their product specifications from time to time and the development times
may change as a result.

Good luck,

Bob

 

[pauldc]

Fomapan 200 at ei125 in Aculux 1+9 for 6 minutes @ 20 C is one of my all time favourite combos - the tonality is gorgeous. I will really miss this film

For some reason I also shoot Fomapan 200 in my Konica Auto S2 - it just seems to work so well together

 

[RobertV]

Upgrade Photokina:
This month Foma will do a new coating for the T200. If the end result is OK they will resume the Creative 200 Fomapan production. If not they continue to find the right alternative compound.

 

[Barry S]

Upgrade Photokina:
This month Foma will do a new coating for the T200. If the end result is OK they will resume the Creative 200 Fomapan production. If not they continue to find the right alternative compound.

That's good news--let's hope they succeed. I had some issues with emulsion inclusions and pinholes in 4x5 film, but I'd love to buy some 8x10 for contact printing. I wish they'd offer it in 11x14.

 

[RobertV]

Talking about contact printing: They have a new Fiber paper Fomalux 111 for contact printing.

 

[brucemuir]

I recently saw some T200 on the freestyle site but it was in their "hot deals" section so it may be old stock. It was 100 ft of 35mm.
I don't beleive I saw any mention of short/past date though.

Any word if this has been re-introduced?
I loved it in 35mm but held off shooting any 120 and then it was discontinued.

 

[RobertV]

Not yet because they first will running a test run for the formulation.