FomaPan 100, what gives?

DonW · Jul 14, 2021

So I developed my first two 120 rolls of this stuff. Why would a film manufacturer ever think it was a good idea to have such a heavily tinted substrate?

I split grade print and I am figuring the tint will make things a bit interesting.

I'm thinking I will just stick to Ilford.

revdoc · Jul 14, 2021

Tinted how? The Foma films generally have fairly dense substrates, but's rarely been a problem for me. They also have a very heavy anti-halation dye, but it generally washes out in the fix and wash steps.

radiant · Jul 14, 2021

Same here, no problem printing Foma 100. Great film.

R.Gould · Jul 14, 2021

You must have some [retty old film, Many years ago the Foma film was coated onto a blue tinted base, never made any difference to printing, but that went at least 10 years ago when the base changed

koraks · Jul 14, 2021

DonW said:
I split grade print and I am figuring the tint will make things a bit interesting.

It won't. The additional density can be printed through very easily. Exposure times aren't problematically longer than with other films. I noticed no effects of the base on contrast in the sense of altered or reduced filtering possibilities.

Agulliver · Jul 14, 2021

DonW said:
So I developed my first two 120 rolls of this stuff. Why would a film manufacturer ever think it was a good idea to have such a heavily tinted substrate?

I split grade print and I am figuring the tint will make things a bit interesting.

I'm thinking I will just stick to Ilford.

What exactly have you shot and developed, and what tint are you seeing? What was your processing regimen? Are you perhaps mistaking the anti-halation dye for tinting? Did you wash your film thoroughly?

Like others, I use a lot of Fomapan 100 in 135 and 120 and I have never seen this tint of which you speak. It prints (and scans) just as easily as any Ilford product.

Wallendo · Jul 14, 2021

Fomapan in 120 has a gray base, more prominent than other films with gray bases, but there should be no tinting of the base.

Paul Howell · Jul 14, 2021

I stopped using Foma in 120 because of the blue base, just resumed a few years ago and have no issues. I found I had a hard time judging density with the blue based version and it curled, really curled.

Grim Tuesday · Jul 14, 2021

The blue always washed away in the fixer for me. I used TF-4, which was an alkaline fix. Maybe that could help?

DonW · Jul 14, 2021

The Foma 100 I have is not out of date. I processed it in PyroCat-HD 1:1:100 semi stand. Fixed in Ilford fixer for 5 minutes. Washed for 20 minutes. It also got a 3 minute pre soak. The negs as far as density etc look wonderful but the heavy magenta colour of the substrate will cause issues with split grade printing using a colour head. Generally you use full magenta for contrast and full yellow for highlights. Since this substate has so much magenta I will have to see how this will work out.

The film itself is very thin and curly and on the rebate is says Ultra 100.

See this image below.

koraks · Jul 14, 2021

That looks nothing like any fomapan I've run through my hands. It looks more like the Kodak antihalation dye, except the edge marking does clearly show its fomapan.

Lachlan Young · Jul 14, 2021

That looks like some sort of massive overall stain (catechol can effectively behave as a coupler - after all that is all that the 'stain' image from staining developers is...). You might be able to de-mordant it somehow. It likely results from the exhaustion of some part of the pyrocat when used in the manner you claim.

DonW · Jul 14, 2021

I will try some in Rodinal and see what happens.

Paul Howell · Jul 14, 2021

What I find odd it is my last roll of Ultrafine Extrem 400 is edged marked Ultra, my 35mm Ultrafine 400 is marked UL Tranfine exream 400, all my Foma is edged Marked Fomapan, well the 200 and 400, I have not shot any 100 in a very long time. Here is poor quailty scan of my last roll of Ultrafine. Sorry it is hard to see the edge marking.

PerTulip · Jul 14, 2021

DonW said:
...the heavy magenta colour ..

Developed two rolls of Fomapan 100 (Rodinal 1+50, Adofix) this weekend. No color.

relistan · Jul 14, 2021

Paul Howell said:
What I find odd it is my last roll of Ultrafine Extrem 400 is edged marked Ultra, my 35mm Ultrafine 400 is marked UL Tranfine exream 400, all my Foma is edged Marked Fomapan, well the 200 and 400, I have not shot any 100 in a very long time. Here is poor quailty scan of my last roll of Ultrafine. Sorry it is hard to see the edge marking. View attachment 280179

That all sounds pretty fishy. Those markings on the roll you posted above are definitely Fomapan 100.

Lachlan Young said:
That looks like some sort of massive overall stain (catechol can effectively behave as a coupler - after all that is all that the 'stain' image from staining developers is...). You might be able to de-mordant it somehow. It likely results from the exhaustion of some part of the pyrocat when used in the manner you claim.

@DonW I second this... no version of Fomapan 100 available in the last 18 years that I've been shooting it has had that color. The older stuff on the thicker polyester base was blue. The newer stuff is clear. Both have a lot of dye in there (blue in the old stuff, green in the newer). @Lachlan Young 's explanation seems the most reasonable to me. Perhaps it interacted weirdly with the dye in the film.

Paul Howell · Jul 14, 2021

Your right, kept looking in my back log of unprinted negatives and found the Ultrafine, it is marked Ultrafine extream 400, the first roll I posted must have Foma 200 which is all I have had on hand for several years. Need to be a better job or labeling the negative page.

DonW · Jul 14, 2021

Seems to me they are packaging whatever is left over from contracted film runs and calling it Foma. End cuts so to speak. I will give it one more try.

Currently I'm working on a project that I am using FP4 exclusively. Thought I'd try the Foma for kicking around stuff.

MattKing · Jul 14, 2021

They also may have a serious bottleneck in the confectioning (including edge printing) part of the process - particularly if they have to contract that out.

Lachlan Young · Jul 14, 2021

MattKing said:
They also may have a serious bottleneck in the confectioning (including edge printing) part of the process - particularly if they have to contract that out.

It's all in-house as far as is known. The edge printing is from a template and (as I understand it) can either be done in bulk as a discreet step (on each 'doughnut' of slit-to-width film) or inline in the spooling/ packaging step. It may be that Freestyle's orders are fulfillable without using up all the edge-signed film, so it gets spooled into Foma wrappers instead.

koraks · Jul 15, 2021

DonW said:
Seems to me they are packaging whatever is left over from contracted film runs and calling it

Nope.

Wallendo · Jul 15, 2021

Foma apparently will package film for other companies. Possibly some other manufacturers film was accidentally labelled and sold as Foma. The recent Fomapan 100 I have shot in 120 has a dull gray base. Even if your developer interacted with the dye, I would expect the magenta to be superimposed on the dull gray base, and not replace it.

Lachlan Young · Jul 16, 2021

Wallendo said:
Even if your developer interacted with the dye, I would expect the magenta to be superimposed on the dull gray base, and not replace it.

It's not on a grey base. What you assume is 'grey' is either fog and/ or residual dyes. Officially Fomapan 100 in 120 is on a clear base (like many B&W 120 films in fact). The 135 base has neutral-ish grey tone to resist light-piping effects. Under certain conditions, you can get a dihydroxybenzene to act as a dye coupler. What has happened here is the developer has fallen apart in such a way that large amount of dye was formed of quite significant persistence.

DREW WILEY · Jul 16, 2021

The magenta example is ludicrous. Something went quite wrong.

mshchem · Jul 16, 2021

MHO it's not the film. Foma is a first class operation. I've limited experience with Foma films, but I've used a lot of their paper, outstanding products.

FomaPan 100, what gives?

DonW

revdoc

radiant

R.Gould

koraks

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Agulliver

Wallendo

Paul Howell

Grim Tuesday

DonW

koraks

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Lachlan Young

DonW

Paul Howell

PerTulip

relistan

Paul Howell

DonW

MattKing

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Lachlan Young

koraks

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Wallendo

Lachlan Young

DREW WILEY

mshchem

FomaPan 100, what gives?

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