Focotar-2: Leica CLA experiences?

[~andi]

Hi there,

I've recently got a Focotar-2 50 with stuff in it. It might be fungus, I'm not sure (doesn't look like the fungus I've seen before). At any rate, it's not very pronounced but I want it out of there to prevent it growing. It's also very slightly hazy.

I asked Leica support if they still can do a CLA on it. I got a very vague response which essentially says: send it in we'll have a look (fine with me) but we don't have spares for Focotars anymore any CLA attempt we make is at your own risk, if we screw something up, not our problem and no warrantee on the work we do. Well, this does not instill much confidence. I know there are things that can go wrong, but that answer more or less prepares me to better expect that the lens is coming back destroyed.

I have had an Focotar 40 serviced by them, but that was 15 years ago and they did an excellent job. Then again, I've had several lenses CLA'd by an independent technician recently and was quite happy as well.

TLDR; Did anyone use Leica Wetzlar for a Focotar CLA in recent months? If so, I'd be happy to hear your experiences and opinions?

Thanks,
Andi

 

[John Koehrer]

IF! It's fungus it can be killed with exposure to UV light. Setting it in a window in bright sunlight
takes care of it but doesn't get rid of any residue.

 

[mnemosyne]

Any competent camera repair person should be able to clean the lens at a modest price. CLA at Leica Wetzlar will be annoyingly expensive. I was quoted ~500 EUR for the cleaning (!) of a Summaron 35/2.8 ("at my own risk") a couple of years ago.

 

[~andi]

John, thanks that's a good idea. Do you think sunlight will do? Or do I need a stronger source to penetrate the coating and layers of glass? For how long does the UV need to be applied to be on the safe side (rough figure)?

mnemosyne, thanks for the feedback. 500 bucks, phew... I think I payed almost 200 Euro for the 40mm I had serviced 15 years ago. that was what I was expecting and the most upper limit I would spend for a superbly done job only - certainly not for an "at my own risk" thing.

I'd do it myself if there would be some way to center the elements without special equipment. The centering, that's the primary concern I have.

Thanks for the feedback. I'm going to kill the fungus first, then make couple of prints to see if I am going to keep it and then send it to my goto guy.

~andi

 

[John Koehrer]

Sunlight will do fine, You would need to let it sit for a couple of days.

There should be several threads on killing fungus her on the site and they have more information
than I can give you.

Any competent repair joint should be able to clean the lens.
If there's no damage to the glass I'd guess it would around $50+/-
but I'm in the US and I've read that service costs in the EU are very expensive.

 

[~andi]

John, thanks, yes going dig up some info on the killing.

Yes, labour in the EU is very expensive. Even though I'd probably get another lens cheaper than the cost of a Leica service, the quality of the work is top notch. My goto guy for camera repair charges around 70 Euros for a CLA, thats a very fair price. I've been very happy with it so far. The very latest CLA however...lets just say Leica service suddenly became much more attractive.

 

[mnemosyne]

UV light will kill the fungus, but it will not clean it or inactivate any spores, so it might start to grow again in the future if favourable conditions are met, so I would really recommend to clean it (something like 70% solution of Isopropanol shoud do the job) or have it cleaned. The thing with fungus is, it might wipe off easily and without a trace and it might have damaged the coating or even etched the glass permanently. You will only know after you have opened the lens.

If you're in Germany, consider Fototechnik Langer in Karlsruhe, they will do a superb job for very reasonable money. They did an excellent job recently cleaning my DR Summicron from the usual haze which is a very delicate task because of the relatively soft coatings involved. The price was less than half of what you were quoted for the 40mm in Wetzlar and the DR Summicron is surely a more complex lens to service than any enlarger lens I am aware of.

 

[~andi]

BTW. Any good sources about servicing a EL lens on my own? I've a few older very dirty focotars here and I'm willing to give a shot learning a new skill. I think the only complex mechanism in there is the aperture, the rest should be simple cleaning and replacing the glass elements, right? I've never done it before because I fear I can't get the glass elements properly aligned again. I always thought you need one of those MTF machines do it properly (http://www.kantocamera.com/repair/image/mtf2.jpg), maybe it can be done without one?

Andi

 

[~andi]

If you're in Germany, consider Fototechnik Langer in Karlsruhe, they will do a superb job for very reasonable money. They did an excellent job recently cleaning my DR Summicron from the usual haze which is a very delicate task because of the relatively soft coatings involved. The price was less than half of what you were quoted for the 40mm in Wetzlar and the DR Summicron is surely a more complex lens to service than any enlarger lens I am aware of.

Thanks for the tip. I didn't know Fototechnik Langer before, thanks!

Andi

 

[mnemosyne]

Langer did very good work on my M4-2 and my IIIf and also my DR Summicron as noted. They are not on the usual "Leica repair guru" lists, but it's the only repair shop that never let me down once. I have had not so great experiences (mildly annoying to outright terrible) with some of the "gurus" here in Europe, so Langer can count on me as a loyal customer. The Leica customer service used to be the pinnacle of Leica repair facilities for sure, but their prices have gone stratospheric and at the same time results and reputation appears to have suffered with the sudden boom of digital Leica gear, though I must admit I haven't been following the news lately ...

 

[~andi]

I just mailed him if he does EL-lenses as well. If he can fix one of the lenses I just got back in worse condition than before, i just might send the Focotar-2 as well...

 

[Robbie Bedell]

Andi, My Focotar 2 also has some 'stuff' in it. I sent it to Don Goldberg at DAG Camera here in the US a couple of years ago and he cleaned it very well but there is still a little 'something' inside. It is just a sort of very slight whitish 'haze' off to one side off the center that is not visible unless I shine a bright light through it. The rest is very clear. If I just look through it is clear as a bell. Don told me the lens is 'as clean as it's going to get.' I guess a fungus did something to an inside coating. It drives me crazy but I really don't think it has any effect in my prints as far as I have been able to see. You might check with CRR Lutton (sic?) in England. The were closed for a while but may be open again.

 

[Robbie Bedell]

Andi, I just checked and CRR Luton is still closed. If you want to deal with the USA there is always John Van Stelton at Focal Point. He might be good to contact.
http://www.focalpointlens.com/

 

[chip j]

I had a Komuranon S 50mm 3.5 cleaned of fungus and it left a "ghost image" inside where it had eaten into the glass. Still works good, though.

 

[Robbie Bedell]

Chip, Yes, I think that's what's in mine...

 

[~andi]

Robbie, thanks for info. Good thinking on sending it to the US. A couple of years ago it would have been no problem. But my buddy at the APO retired and is traveling the world and regular postage/re-import duty would cost me probably more than getting another one and having it serviced over here.

The slight haze against a penlight is normal I think. It comes from the fumes in the darkroom (and in the air in general) and some eat into the coating. At least so I have been told. I've seen this with many lenses, taking- and EL-lenses alike up until the 2000s. Even my dearest Summicron 50 from the early 90ties has this - and I've been taking care of it well. The later lenses from 2000 onward or so, do not have it (or not yet). At any rate, i've never seen any drawback with this.

Chip, the ghost image is on the glass of the lens element, isn't it? Not on the prints you make, right?

Andi

 

[chip j]

Yes, on an inside element.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

It would take any competent repair person about 10 minutes to clean the lens. They are easy to get apart as long as you know how. Odds are it is just haze. I have one that was the same and it came right out, no problems. Clear as a desert sky now.

 

[~andi]

Taking apart is one thing. Is it really that easy putting it back together again? I've never done it, that's probably why I have an itch to do it myself. Aligning/centering the the elements is what concerns me. I always thought it can not be done properly without a special machine. I think i read a post a while back on apug where someone gave up on cleaning a focotar. Said it's a mess in there. Can't seem to find the thread...

 

[John Koehrer]

Unless rotation affects centering, I don't think you have a problem. The elements are a very snug slip fit into the barrel.
There are two, possibly three retaining rings holding the glass in place. The important thing
is to reinstall them facing the correct direction.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

If you have never done one before andi, you should just get a professional to do it for you since the lens is worth enough, and good enough, to justify the cost. If you had a run of the mill lens, I would say invest in a spanner and go for it. If you do decide to do it yourself, the best advice I can give is to "walk" the elements in with the retaining rings. That means do a series of "tighten, loosen" on the retaining ring to get the elements seated correctly. You will notice the retaining ring will move a little farther than the first tightening (where most people stop) if you do this ensuring that the element is seated and centered correctly. Many lenses are slightly off. I had a Schneider Componon that wasn't very good until I cleaned it, then it was pretty spectacular since I got the elements in the right way.

Hope that helps you.

 

[~andi]

John, PRJ, yes this helps very much. That's the kind of important detail you usually learn the hard way, I guess. I won't try my first lens CLA on the Focotar-2. I have several Focotar-1s which came with Focomats I got for spare parts. One is in very bad shape, I'm going to sacrifice it as guinea pig. The desings are 30 years apart or so, but the basics should be similar enough to learn that skill. Right?

Andi

 

[John Koehrer]

Andi,
They're going to be similar. Sorta. Like anything else more than one way to do the same thing.
If you have the lens in poor shape available it should be interesting.
One favor you need to do yourself though. Don't take the blades out it's a patience building exercise.

 

[~andi]

Thanks for the warning John. No guarantees though

 

[~andi]

Just to give you an update here. I've got that Focotar-1 which has been messed up by one of the "gurus" (among several other lenses I sent him - bad mistake). I could not believe what I got back. Those lenses were messed up and worse than before, gunk in them, etc. those were my best lenses. Anyways, I don't want to go into details as it will aggravate me too much...

Last week, I sent said messed up Focotar to Fototechnik Langer in Karlsruhe. During the process I have been called twice by very friendly professional. He told me what can be done and what not, how much the costs are (less than guru) and asked if they should go ahead or not. He also promised, if something unexpected occurs during the process, he'll call immediately to check what to do. The lens has been serviced now (except for the no-way-back things the guru did to them) and I'm waiting for it in the mail. A very very smooth, friendly and professional experience so far. I'm excited how the lens actually looks, presumably it could be cleaned very well. I should have taken pictures of it before and after.

Btw, the Focotar-2 went to Leica for an estimate.

Will get back with the results as soon as I have the lenses back.

Andi