Focomat IIC Head / Bellow Suddenly Drops Down

Dear All,

I'm new here, first post. I hope it's posted in the correct section.

Photography is a hobby for me and I have been desperate for a long time to return to film and a darkroom.

I purchased a black Focomat IIc about six months ago. I've now set up my darkroom and i'm starting to explore the IIc. So far I'm really pleased with it, however, I do have one problem.

I use the 60mm lens for my 135mm negs as I believe I should and when I lower the head with the red handle on the left it suddenly drops and emits a loud bang. This happens when I look at the enlargement scale at 3 and then drops again a small amount at 2.5. The lower wheel is running along the lower cam and then it does lift off of the lower cam the lower the head goes. If I lower the head by not using the red handle on the left but hold just above, the point where the Bowden cable enters it holds the wheel against the cam and works perfectly and the head (bellows) lower smoothly. I do not have to use any force just literally hold and lower at this point. I can clearly see the cylinder running on the lower cam, it doesn't lift off at any point when the 60mm lens is selected and I use the above technique of lowering and raising the head by holding by the Bowden cable.

I should add, using the above technique the autofocus works through the entire range. The same happens if I use the 100mm lens and the upper cam, the wheel doesn't follow the upper cam the entire length and sits above the cam and of course as I lower the head it suddenly drops approx 1cm. If I hold by the Bowden cable it works as it should and follows / runs along the cam.

If I deselect the autofocus by pulling the knurled head (number 37 in the English manual) the head rises and lowers perfectly. If I reselect the autofocus and look at the knurled head you can see the pin moving between the ridges clearly, this moves smoothly if I raise and lower the head by using the section of the enlarger mentioned above by the Bowden cable.

The enlarger is in very good condition. I have oiled the red nipple points with sewing machine oil as described in the manual in hope that something may have got a little stuck, this has not fixed the problem.

I have also undone the tiny screw and removed the pin to release the arm just below the Bowden cable to check they are moving freely, they are.

I have also read a lot about adjusting the cams / autofocus. There isn't enough movement / adjustment in the cams to raise them so that the cylinder runs along the cam for the entire length. This is the reason I thought something may be sticking to prevent the head moving smoothly.

I realise I can use the enlarger by holding it in a different place but it is frustrating me why this is happening.

I hope I have explained this clearly. Has anyone got any idea what could be going on please?

Thanks for your help.
Gary

Gary,

I know the problem, but I don't know why it happens: my first very beat up IIc did exactly that. I never gave it much thought (at 20 years old) and just held my hand under the lens so that it dropped on my hand. I printed like that for over 10 years, pffft. Then I inherited a black IIc that was like new and was actually never used. Because it never operated I took it to a Leitz repair man to be serviced. When that had happened this IIc operated very different. No banging down and everything was incredibly smooth. That was about 20 years ago and it still is like that.

I am not sure if I understand where exactly by the Bowden cable you hold it, and what you do: pushing up or down? Tomorrow (afternoon Holland) I am in my darkroom and if no one else here has come up with the solution, I will have a look to understand if the movements you describe of the wheels on the cams are logic compared to mine. There's hardly any bellows movement with one lens, and quite a bit with the other, I forget which . . .

The curled knob: are you sure it is in the right position? Perhaps in that position to do with reproductions it is supposed to drop like that? Is your Bowden cable okay? Do you know that you, when changing the lens, must really do what the small arrows say: lift up and then slide the lens stage. When you switch to the 60mm and you don't lift up the wheel does not land on the cam, but against it. That's not good for the Bowden cable as it gets a knock each time you do that. That shortens the life of the cable. Bowden cables can look fine, but still be broken.

Michael

Hi Michael,

Thank you for the reply.

It is a strange problem and I have looked and looked and can't see what could be causing this. I am literally holding the metal part approx 1 inch in from where the Bowden cable enters the enlarger, the end furthest away from where you stand to operate the enlarger. I am doing exactly what you would do with the red tube section where you are supposed to hold to lower / raise the enlarger head using no pressure or force.

The man I bought the enlarger off of only used it by manually focusing the lens, the enlarger didn't have a Bowden cable. I have ordered a Bowden cable and am awaiting delivery of it. So what I have done is used a locking shutter release cable. I have studied the way the Bowden cable works in quite some detail and realised it's a very simple but effective system. It either pushes the wheel out to run on the lower cam when the 60mm lens is engaged or retracts when the 100mm lens is engaged. You can see how it works by removing the cable the end closest to the lenses, as you change from 100mm to 60mm lenses the section in the hole moves closer and pushed the Bowden cable (sorry for the description and I don't suggest you undo your cable!) Also sorry as you all most probably know this, but by writing it it helps get it clear in my head! I was very careful in making sure when doing this the wheel sits on top of the cam and not against it. I am only using the 60mm lens at the moment so I am not switching lenses so I believe this set up is ok until the cable arrives as it has locked the wheel in the outward position and it is running on the lower cam. It only runs on the lower cam if I operate the enlarger as described as opposed to using the red handle. I realise by using it in this way it is not allowing the wheel to lift off of the cam and it works perfectly.

I'd appreciate it if you could see how and what your wheel does on the lower cam please. I have also checked the manual and the knurled knob is in the correct position - engaged for the auto focus / general use.

I've uploaded a couple of photos of where I am holding the enlarger for it to work correctly. Also a photo of the side of the enlarger incase someone spots something wrong, in this you can see my temporary shutter release cable that is working as a temporary Bowden cable and keeping the wheel pushed out for the lower cam.

One thing I have noticed, if I hold the section where the lenses are mounted and lift it up and down I have movement. This is the movement I have when I hear the section drop if I hold the red wheel when lowering the enlarger. By lifting and lowering this section the wheel lifts off of the cam. Please could you check if you have movement here please? I've attached another photo to show where I am holding for this.

Thank you for your help.

Gary

Gary, ok I understand now where you hold it.

One thing: it looks like you entire head is tilting backwards, from above the bellows. Is that real or an optical joke the camera is playing on us?

It is an optical illusion, I just went out to the garage to get a spirit level to double check. All level.

Once thing that has got me thinking is the way you change lenses. On page 12 of the manual (pic attached) First paragraph, end of line 5 - "lift the lens carrier by the handle (31)". I don't lift anything, all I do is pinch the two sections (no. 31 and 32) and slide the carrier and then release so that the carrier locks in to the small indent. If I do lift this is the movement I am experiencing, approximately 1cm of up down movement. I can see the wheel coming up off of the cam. So perhaps something should be locking in.

Thanks for your help.

That's what I tried to make clear before: you must (1) pinch and lift up, then (2) move sideways. With the Bowdon cable, when you don't lift the wheel lands against the cam, not on it

I am not convinced the way you do it caused the dropping. Also, since there's no Bowdon cable you don't run the risk I spoke about before.

But at the moment I don't have the Bowden cable only my make shift shutter release cable. I have made sure the wheel is sitting above / running along the top of the bottom cam. I've looked under where the lenses are and have added a couple of pics of this, is there anything missing there other than the Bowden cable coming in. As I don't have the cable and by having the wheel sat on the lower cam and the 65mm lens selected surely this cancels out the cable as the problem? Or does the cable do something else.

When I pinch and lift up as you describe nothing happens other than the lenses can move to either the 60 or 100 position. Does something else happen when this is done?

Just looked at mine and it behaves the same way but only at the very low extreme of the range. I have never printed that small
and wonder if it's just too close to the baseboard.
Like mine, The collar at the bottom of the column is in the highest notch which may be related to using the reproduction cassette and
have no effect on anything else.. Focomats(1C) were set up for a 1" thick easel and beyond that you got me The 1C used that collar to
compensate for the height of the easel.
On the page from the manual there's a paragraph referring to the longer lens being set to the focussing detent marked "R"
to me that's as clear as mud.

Hilo, thank you for your help and I'm sorry if my recent response was a bit short. I've even asked the wife to take a look.

I should say it has always dropped like this since I got the enlarger, it wasn't dismantled and only transported approx 10 miles. I have a feeling it may have done this for the previous owner.

I've re-read your posts about this and see what happens when you lift, it does make the wheel sit easily on the cam and not against it. I did this as I engaged my temporary shutter release cable and the wheel sits easily on top of the cam. I can see how someone may force this and damage the Bowden cable by not lifting first.

John that's interesting yours does the same, would you mind trying to lower your enlarger and hold it where I have been to see if it still drops please? I have been printing really small for a friend and if the enlarger drops it's nearly impossible to focus, but if you hold the enlarger the way I have had to the focus remains perfect and you can print very small. My easel is the 30mm Leitz one and set the collar to the 30mm setting. I only realised this was incorrectly set along with the collar you wind down the other day, I literally spent hours trying to get the autofocus to work.

I also found that section of the manual as clear as mud.

I don't see how holding in a different place (as you show) can make this difference. I never touch the red thing and just unscrew the black knob on the right and bring it up or down.

Also, I have had several IIc's set up in my darkroom, and I have helped many people to get them. I have never had to fiddle with the automatic focus. Normally all works well and I would not touch that until someone can guide you. Give it a moment . . .

By holding it in a different place it prevents the wheel lifting off the cam and the head suddenly dropping. I discovered this my accident. If I don't hold it here the wheel doesn't follow the line/ run of the cam, the wheel lifts above the cam and then the head drops and goes bang. I look and see the wheel is back on the cam.

I normally only hold the black knob on the right too and it was only after reading the manual again as I was hoping to get a clue re my head dropping that I noticed you should hold the red knob on the left. It was then whilst trying to reach for the red knob I reached above by accident and realised by holding here the head doesn't drop and everything works perfectly.

I've stopped looking at the cams / autofocus and as you say they normally work well. I am wondering if there is something sticking somewhere hence the sudden head movement.

thank you for your time and help.

I've used one of these and experienced the same dropping, loud bang thing. The guy who owns the enlarger said this is normal, so i have never worried about it.

That's what I thought for about ten years, until I got back the fully serviced IIc. The difference is large. Unfortunately my friend, this repairer, passed away last year. This is not the first time I wished I had paid better attention . . .

If anyone knows a repairer who is familiar with servicing this enlarger, I am certain he or she would know. But let's see if we can find out ourselves. If we can't: I know someone who has replaced the bellows, which is an operation with many steps, perhaps he understands.

While I am not in front of my IIc now, I think the loud bang drop is not okay, even when it doesn't mean you can't print. I think the movement of the bellows while using the 60mm is larger than that of the 100mm. But perhaps not that much. That seems to conflict with what I remember that distance to be after the loud bang drop.

The movement of the wheel as Gary describes in his opening post: it is not unfamiliar to me. I need to check it though. My problem is that I am just not very good in technical things . . .

Okay, early morning here, I needed to get something from my workspace and checked the IIc

I think your problem may be that something in the mechanism needs to be greased: Something is blocking it until the moving down forces to drop the thing. Maybe it drops faster because it is first not going, that being the reason for the loud bang.

100mm: brought down by releasing the black round knob on the side and bringing down with that - wheel runs over all of the upper cam, including downwards at the end - bellows goes gradually down all the way with a small drop at the end, doing a soft schklunck - distance of the bellows expanding is about 10cm

60mm: brought down the same way - wheel runs over all of the cam, including going down at the end - bellows comes down much less, about 2.5cm

By pushing downwards you simulate the correct procedure, but I imagine all is less gradual. Since I hardly use the 60mm I am not sure how correct that one's automatic focus is. I have another IIc stored for a friend, I will check that one too.

Thanks Michael for looking, I really appreciate it. I totally agree, the dropping is not normal and shouldn't be happening.

I also agree that I thought it may need greasing somewhere else. I've oiled the red nipple points with pure sewing machine oil as per the manual. I've removed the small pin as mentioned above to release the two arms near the Bowden cable to check they are not sticking. When I look at the movement it does appear to be sticking where the bellows are.

I have approximately 2.5cm of bellows movement also on the 60mm lens but the 100mm lens when the bellows are fully extended is about 8cm.

Yes by holding near the Bowden cable it is simulating the correct procedure, movement. It is gradual and nothing drops / bangs it's not a natural place to hold and move the enlarger head so it does feel a little strange but there is no resistance in the movement.

Looking again at the movement of the wheel and cam, I've noticed the wheel lifts off of the cam at approximately the same height. For example if the 60mm lens is selected the wheel runs on the lower cam and when the arms of the enlarger are horizontal the wheel starts to lift off of the cam. This happens when the 100mm lens is selected and the wheel starts to lift at the same point when the enlarger arms are horizontal.

I did find a post online and instructions / photographs for changing the bellows. Perhaps this was a post by your friend. This looked really involved and I may do this as a last resort, dismantle and grease and reassemble. I guess this area needs greasing too but is not in the user manual as I guess it's a specialists job.

Thank you for your help

Garry,

Perhaps my distance was also 8cm, I just guessed. Had a quick look at the other IIc here, it is basically the same story.

I don't think it will be a complicated job to lubricate this system. Not like changing the bellows. It is the same person I was talking about and I will ask him to have a look at this thread. Perhaps there's an easy way that may already do the trick. I would also like to know.

Otherwise, I would not worry about this. You can print. Things may already become different when you use the cable. Sometimes these enlargers cure themselves! What you should also remember is that automatic focus with this kind of equipment is a relative thing. You want to get it right as good as possible, but you should always check each negative with the grain focuser. In particular when you print larger.

Thanks Michael.

It’ll be interesting if you friend can shed some light on why this is happening.

I’ve moved the head up and down and looked through my grain focuser and have been amazed at how accurate the auto focus is. I do as you suggest also double check everything before I print.

I’m enjoying using the enlarger so much I’ve virtually stopped using a digital camera.

Wyck said:

I’m enjoying using the enlarger so much I’ve virtually stopped using a digital camera.

Click to expand...

You should thank the arrival of digital on your knees !!! It gave the many photographers who had little love for the darkroom the excuse to sell their beautiful analogue equipment at more or less the same time. That made prices drop to the extent that we can all afford these beautiful enlargers now. In 1980 I worked with a b/w printer in Paris maybe 6 months and earned myself that beat-up IIc I spoke about. Perhaps there wasn't even the Bowdon cable, ha.

One more thing: the sowing machine oil for the red nipples is a very liquid, dry oil. For the dropping system to behave better you will need an oil much more sticky & greasy. Also for the column's groove (?), btw . . .

It gets more and more weird. I just tried the thing again and from one extreme to the other it's smooth. As Hilo suggested it very likely is in need of lube.
Just a SWAG(silly wild ass guess) possibly the pivot for both cam riders.

I just noticed in the MF thread there's a thread about 105vs150 lenses. It was noted that the
longer lens would give a smaller image for a given height. Temporarily why not use the 100
to make the smaller prints for your friend?

Wyck,
Does the carriage on which the lenses ride move smoothly up and down throughout its full travel?

and while we're at it: one of your pictures clearly shows the curled head screw in the "pushed in" position. Is that what you have been using? I believe it needs to be in the "pulled out" position

And what is a "curled head screw"? Would that possibly be "knurled head screw" and perhaps refer to the spring-loaded pin on the side of the lower extension of the lens carriage?

wfw said:

And what is a "curled head screw"? Would that possibly be "knurled head screw" and perhaps refer to the spring-loaded pin on the side of the lower extension of the lens carriage?

Click to expand...

Yes, you got it, thanks !

As I recall, that pin should be retracted and the head turned 90º to lock it in the retracted position. But it's been several years since I had a IIC. At full height, the lens cluster is going to be fully retracted. If there is crud in the focusing rails or perhaps due only to a "sticky" bellows that doesn't want to extend, the lens cluster remains "stuck" at the top of its travel instead of tracking the cam as intended. Then when the forces equalize, gravity does its thing and the cluster drops to find the cam once again.

That, at least, is a possible scenario. I recall something similar happening when I had mine. But that was >15 years ago and memory starts to get a bit wonky. "Curled" really threw me off and it wasn't until I looked closely at the pictures that my old neurons started firing again. Curled ≠ knurled!

Again, check the travel of the lens carriage and make sure that it is smooth throughout its range and that there is no foreign objects or debris for it to get hung up on. Something as simple as some dried grease can foul the works. Those Germans worked to pretty close tolerances.

That Focomat IIC is one of the most over-engineered things I've ever seen. Right after the Linhof Technika.
Their insistence on having a sliding lens turret really put some design restrictions on them. Consequently for us, the IIC cannot utilize standard modern enlarging lenses. And ironically the Leitz lenses are a weak spot of the system. (Yes, Leitz! Hard to believe!) I had the 100mm Focotar-2 lens and could not ever get the corners of my negative in focus at the same time as the center. I used several different test negatives of my own making, along with regular unmodified images, but was confounded trying to get everything in focus. Fortunately I was still able to get reasonably good prints. But it was a disappointment.

The predecessor to the IIC was the IIA. Focomat IIA enlargers prior to 1950 had a single mounting point with a helical focuser and to change lenses, you had to unscrew one lens and screw in the other. But that way you could choose your own lens. Back then not so much, but today with the range of excellent enlarging lenses on the used market, that's a neat system. Unfortunately back focus distances and aperture rings of varying sizes makes it challenging to make it work. But IMO it was a better system than being locked into a proprietary lens by the manufacturer.