Flocculation and Gum prints

donbga · Apr 10, 2011

Colin Graham said:
Here's what it looks like on some cheap Epson glossy-

I also like the Kirkland glossy, 150 sheets for less than $20, made by Harmon/Ilford and no water marks on the back.

Don

Davec101 · Apr 10, 2011

Have been feverishly printing today and have moved the magenta to the first layer, followed by cyanotype then yellow, at the moment it has solved my fish/eye problems. Colours are out but its progress (see attached). Will try and make some larger prints to see how the paper holds up. I have not had to do any pre-treatment to the Cot 320, registration just by eye seems okay but will get a better idea once i try larger sizes.

PVia · Apr 10, 2011

Dave,

Have you tried Y-M-C yet? This is what Keith Taylor does and you have probably seen his incredible work. There's a million ways to skin a cat when it comes to gum, but this is what I do as well. It allows you to use a nice strong yellow, like Cadmium Yellow Light as the first layer, since it's relative opaqueness won't be covering up other colors. Yes, blue can be tricky as the last color but you get used to handling it.

Here's a few of mine done this way:

. | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

. | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

donbga · Apr 10, 2011

PVia said:
Dave,

Have you tried Y-M-C yet? This is what Keith Taylor does and you have probably seen his incredible work. There's a million ways to skin a cat when it comes to gum, but this is what I do as well. It allows you to use a nice strong yellow, like Cadmium Yellow Light as the first layer, since it's relative opaqueness won't be covering up other colors. Yes, blue can be tricky as the last color but you get used to handling it.

Here's a few of mine done this way:

. | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

. | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

So you are printing Cyanotype as your last layer?

Don

R Shaffer · Apr 11, 2011

Davec said:
Have been feverishly printing today and have moved the magenta to the first layer, followed by cyanotype then yellow, at the moment it has solved my fish/eye problems. Colours are out but its progress (see attached). Will try and make some larger prints to see how the paper holds up. I have not had to do any pre-treatment to the Cot 320, registration just by eye seems okay but will get a better idea once i try larger sizes.

That's looking pretty darn close. Red a little off? Yellow & blue look good to me, but I'm easy. Good job.

R Shaffer · Apr 11, 2011

PVia said:
Dave,

Have you tried Y-M-C yet? This is what Keith Taylor does and you have probably seen his incredible work. There's a million ways to skin a cat when it comes to gum, but this is what I do as well. It allows you to use a nice strong yellow, like Cadmium Yellow Light as the first layer, since it's relative opaqueness won't be covering up other colors. Yes, blue can be tricky as the last color but you get used to handling it.

Here's a few of mine done this way:

. | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

. | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Yea, I'm curious too. How is it registering to yellow? Really like the shot of the doors, very rich colors.

Davec101 · Apr 12, 2011

PVia said:
Dave,

Have you tried Y-M-C yet? This is what Keith Taylor does and you have probably seen his incredible work. There's a million ways to skin a cat when it comes to gum, but this is what I do as well. It allows you to use a nice strong yellow, like Cadmium Yellow Light as the first layer, since it's relative opaqueness won't be covering up other colors. Yes, blue can be tricky as the last color but you get used to handling it.

Thanks for the suggestion, at the moment i using the cyanotype as the first layer, its obviously limiting, and i am having to underexpose the C layer as the final CMY print does have a blue hue to it. Like you say there are many ways to do this process you just have to find you own way of working it all out, its pretty challenging but if you get the print you want its worth it.

I think if one aims to get photo-realistic gum prints, in terms of colour, like Keith Taylor it would take a significant amount of calibration, also the fine tuning of ones technique which takes many years.

P.S i like the gum over platinum print of the hand, can you tell me a bit more about it like which platinum technique and what colour pigment, also is it the same negative printed twice for platinum and gum?

Davec101 · Apr 12, 2011

R Shaffer said:
That's looking pretty darn close. Red a little off? Yellow & blue look good to me, but I'm easy. Good job.

Thanks Ron, have attached the latest test which is using the cyanotype first, then magenta then yellow. The reds are not as strong as i would like them yet. I am just testing double coating the M layer (PV19), i.e coat, dry then re-coat. Does anyone else do this? I would prefer this than having to do another M layer exposure.

Bruce · Apr 12, 2011

In the gallery, search under “Dots On Color File Gum Print” you will see an image I posted some time ago on this forum.

While the colors came out ok, I am having some pigment issues with the Phthalo Blue. Their are small blue dots on portions of the print (look in the yellow area under the right bottom edge of the image). I believe the blue pigment had not completely gone into solution even though I mixed it well.

Order of printing for this tri color gum was Nickel Azo Yellow PY150, Q Rose PV19 and then Phthalo Blue PB15:3. Printed on Fabriano EW, that had been sized and hardened.

I am just a beginner and have only limited gum experience but you might want to read "The Gum Bichromate Book” Second Edition, by David Scopick. Also, if you can, get Chris Anderson's Alternative Processes Condensed manual or better yet take her Gum Printing workshop offered at the Photo Formulary in Montana. It is an excellent workshop and you will learn a lot of how Chris prints Tri Color gum.

As you well know by know, everyone has a different procedure. You can print more than 3 layers but I would suggest you try to get your color balance with 3 layers due to possible problems regarding registration, staining and other issues.

Good luck and keep printing.

R Shaffer · Apr 12, 2011

Davec said:
Thanks Ron, have attached the latest test which is using the cyanotype first, then magenta then yellow. The reds are not as strong as i would like them yet. I am just testing double coating the M layer (PV19), i.e coat, dry then re-coat. Does anyone else do this? I would prefer this than having to do another M layer exposure.

Have you tried diluting your cyanotype with water to get a lighter blue? Your problem is opposite of my usual issue of too much red and the need for 4th layer of blue to balance it back out and sink the shadows.

Bruce · Apr 12, 2011

Regarding using cyanotype as the first layer, if you have not done so, you may wish to read Sam Wangs article “Tri Color Gum with Cyanotype” on the Unblinking Eye website. He uses a different mixing ratio for his cyanotype.

Here is the link
http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/3CB/3cg.html

Bruce · Apr 12, 2011

Opps ---web site was wrong - sorry

3CG

BenjaminAustin · Apr 17, 2011

R Shaffer said:
I find that a quick coat of PVA diluted 1:1 with water make for a good size after I have a few of layers of gum down.

Hi There,

Just a little query on this older post... Is it common to size between layers when gum printing?

Cheers

B

R Shaffer · Apr 17, 2011

BenjaminAustin said:
Hi There,

Just a little query on this older post... Is it common to size between layers when gum printing?

Cheers

B

It is not entirely uncommon to size the paper after a few layers of gum have been printed. The original sizing breaks down as you print more layers, so to prevent staining it can help to resize to some point. I definitely don't size between each layer.

Nothing worse than being on the 5th or 6th layer and having it stain

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