What pigment is that? I often see this with PV 19 (quinacridone rose). Try to use it as the second layer (not third) and brush / smooth well... Also, use very little; it's a very strong colorant.
N.B. All above for PV19R...
Regards,
Loris.
P.S. Nice results, nevertheless...
What pigment is that? I often see this with PV 19 (quinacridone rose). Try to use it as the second layer (not third) and brush / smooth well... Also, use very little; it's a very strong colorant.
N.B. All above for PV19R...
Regards,
Loris.
P.S. Nice results, nevertheless...
If it is an consolation, I find magenta to be a difficult pigment and I frequently get a similar grainy appearance. It is like tiny clumps of solid pigment get trapped in the paper fiber.
In my own anecdotal experience I have blamed it on poor/damaged sizing as I see it more frequently in areas that I have brushed heavily on prior layers. I used to see it more frequently, but I think as I have gotten better at sizing it has been less of a problem.
You could try reducing the pigment or sizing before magenta layer.
Hopefully someone with more gum experience will chime in and either confirm or rebuff my assumptions.
Thanks Loris for the adivice, your spot on it is quinacridone rose. I get this effect even when trying it fresh on the fabriano with no other layers so there is something going wrong. I will try it as a second layer tommorow to see if it makes a difference. What are you using for magenta?
Glad if that was helpful indeed...
Regards,
Loris.
What sort of separations are you using? For the life of me I can't get isolated, stand-out colors using RGB separations, and have much better luck with CMYK.
I primarily use CMY seperations made from the channels pallet. Creating CMYK produces completely different negatives.
Don Bryant
Multichannel CMY/ RGB separations appear to be identical on CS4, regardless of conversion/inversion order. Am I missing something? Yes, CMYK does give completely different negatives- that's why I suggested it. I just like taking the black-building density out of the colors and just adding them back to the stronger shadows as needed. For selective color images like this it might be worth a try. (BTW, the image should be converted to cmyk before inversion to keep the K info in the shadows and not muddy the highlights with it.)
I primarily use CMY seperations made from the channels pallet. Creating CMYK produces completely different negatives.
DaveC I get intense reds when I need them doing bi-color gum over cyanotype.
I use Quinacridone Rose as the last layer. The M. Graham and Daniel Smith brands of this pigment work very well. 1 coat for the yellow and 1 coat for the magenta layer. You are going to hate me for saying this but you need to size your paper. I use a very thin watery layer for the magenta coat. You do not need to put alcohol into the pigment mix. Though I do use grain alcohol with my gelatin size to kill the sparkles.
I use FAEW and Rives BFK papers. With FAEW I print on the mesh side, though after double shrinking and sizing with 3% gelatin and hardening with 2.5% glut the surface is soft and smooth as a babies butt. I really prefer BFK.
And I also use a dremel tool to mix my pigment mixtures and my coating mixtures which uses saturated AD. I brush on the mixed coatings with a very slighly dampened very high quality hake brush followed by a even and light roll out with a micro-foam roller. Almost all magenta pigs cause oily mixtures which are plaqued with fish eyes. I do the final smoothing with a large badger hair brush once the surface gets just slightly dry to rid the coating of those. The badger hair brush works the magic.
I forget how you are creating your negatives but I use PDN and create an individual adjustment curve for each pigment, including the cyanotype layer. By doing this and using CMY negs. the color is placed very precisely in the print. An alternative which I will explore soon is to also use an ICC profile when working with the positive image before color seperation. This will aid in softproofing if you understand how to do that properly.
I develop my prints for 1 hour @ 70F. Often I will have to use a water atomizer to get the final layer of magenta to release. This provises a very fine mist of water to develop the pigment and help it release. If I find the magenta (or yellow not releasing) I'll develop in warmer water for a short period to get the development started. Of course brush development is needed in some areas just to clean out whites or intensify certain colors, but that's an advanced technique that requires finesse and practice.
Be gentle handling the prints while they face down. If you let them plop strongly in the water the magenta layer may just slough off from the shock wave created to the impact. A wave front reflects off the bottom of the tray and scrubs the surface of the print.
If you are familiar with the Adobe Ole Moire file, print that in gum until you have a perfect tri-color print as you can make it. It will teach you a lot.
Using cyanotype as the Prussian Blue layer reduces the color gamut and you find certain colors impossible to match or create in the green, blue, aqua hues if that is your goal. Using the Adobe file mentioned above will help you key in on reproduction of flesh tones.
I don't know about flocculation but I just call it staining which is what you've got.
Good luck,
Don Bryant
Hi Don
Thank you very much for such an informative reply, quite a few things to digest and i hope you dont mind if i get back to you on a few of them, in relation to sizing the paper. Why is it important that i do this if my paper is not moving on the aluminium?
At the moment i am using FA traditional white as opposed to Bright White, do you know if there is any significant differences between the two other one being whiter than the other?
To create negatives I am using the curves i created for cyanotype for each layer as from what i read they are not to dissimilar from the way gum works, I maybe completely off on this one! I am inverting the RGB image to create CMY separations. Out of interest what is wrong with just using the RGB channels instead?
I will definitely start printing out the ole moire file and see where i am going wrong. Like you say i think using the cyanotype process will limit me however i am having fisheye/staining problems also with this layer using D.Smiths Pthalo Blue too so i reverted to the cyanotype process. In a way the gum prints dont have to be exactly spot onto the Polaroids but close. I think gum prints have their own quality which one should take advantage of rather than replicating another process, if you get what i mean.
thanks again.
P.S It might be better if you could change the topic title to 'Fisheye/Staining and Gum prints' as opposed to 'Flocculation'
Dave I'm on my way out the door so I can't reply for a while. Probably not till tomorrow.
Don
Hi Don
Thank you very much for such an informative reply, quite a few things to digest and i hope you dont mind if i get back to you on a few of them, in relation to sizing the paper. Why is it important that i do this if my paper is not moving on the aluminium?
Dave,
Sizing the paper with gelatin fills in between the paper fibers so that the paper is less absorbent. The emulsion can't absorb into the paper as deeply has fewer nooks and crannies for the pigment to get trapped in.
Mounting to aluminum eliminates the paper shrinkage and while sizing may help reduce the shrinkage, I don't consider shrinkage to be primary reason to size.
I find that a quick coat of PVA diluted 1:1 with water make for a good size after I have a few of layers of gum down.
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