Very nice list! One thing, which is unclear tkod me, is the table listing very low capacity for these chems: 3 rolls of 120 film per liter of color developer sounds very low. Does this mean "in case of no replenishment" ?
Very nice list! One thing, which is unclear to me, is the table listing very low capacity for these chems: 3 rolls of 120 film per liter of color developer sounds very low. Does this mean "in case of no replenishment" ?
3x 120 or 1.5x 135 already would mean 670ml necessary per 1x 135.
That again is 2.7x what is used in a standard inversion tank, or 4.8x what is used in a standard rotary tank.
Or with other words: already without replenishing after a run such processing would go far beyond the capacity limits for the developer bath. According to Kodak.
The numbers are official Kodak guidance taken from Z-131. Yes, that's assuming no replenishment. @Mick Fagan there are substantial differences between Kodak's official recommendations, that tend to be conservative, and community wisdom. I have assembled only the manufacturer's data there. One area where I made an exception was "Chemical Storage Life" table.
Replenishment rates come from sink-line processing, Table 3-2 from Z131. Yes, Kodak does not recommend replenishment for rotary tube (because of small amounts of developer involved) but as I said, the document is a combination of Kodak instructions and community advice. Multiple people have reported success using two available developer-replenishers in replenishment regime using the rates above with Paterson tanks.
I think the point he's trying to make is that if the Kodak datasheet was correct, rotary processing a single 135/36 roll in e.g. a Jobo 1510 (~150ml) wouldn't work properly. Which it does, implying that the Kodak datasheet must indeed be very conservative.
From published info we can see that the NaBr in developer should run about 1.3 g/l (Haist published the C42 formula). Next, from the Z131 manual, we can see that the aim LORR developer replenishment rate is about 25 ml per "roll" (spec says 5 ml/ft for 35mm perf film; x 5 ft = 25 ml). So we presume that the roll of film, bringing the 25 ml of replenisher to NaBr spec, supplies ~ 0.032 grams NaBr. But... in the Jobo, with no replenishment, it increases the NaBr concentration to about 17% above spec. So, the development starts out with the main restrainer at spec level, but by the end of development it is roughly 15 to 20% high. Now, since bromide is released in proportion to silver developed, one might presume that CD-4 is similarly depleted.
I should emphasize that the above is theoretical at this point - it has not been verified by chemical analysis. But I'd probably bet a lot of money that it's pretty close (I'd recheck the numbers pretty carefully before putting a lot of $$ on the line).
Now, anyone who has run replenished systems knows that changes in rates are typically made in 10% increments. For example, if a process is getting near the lower control limits a 10% replenisher rate boost will bring it back near center. So while ~10% error is more or less ok, double that is getting pretty bad. So the 15 to 20% NaBr increase over aim spec (at the finish of processing) is quite a lot. But as long as one doesn't reuse it, the results presumably are pretty decent.
By the way, the commercial processing standard is to use replenished systems (you can't do this with color developers in a Jobo, as the aeration will tend to "kill" the developer). In our cine machines running LORR developer replenishment (around 25 ml/"roll") we could process about 35 to 40 "standard rolls" per liter with NO DEGRADATION of the developer - it always remains chemically in spec. As opposed to the 3 rolls/liter unreplenished per Kodak, or 6 to 7 rolls per liter using 150 ml developer batches, where the developer has become seriously compromised, chemically, after a single run. I don't know if this bears repeating, but I'll restate it: the LORR replenished system can stretch the developer capacity to about 6 to 12 times more film than the non-replenished systems being discussed, and the developer remains in spec the entire time.
From my experiments with replenishment of the Flexicolor developer in a Jobo processor (1000ml working solution) - I would highly recommend sticking more closely to a suggested capacity of 3/4 films per litre, and forget about replenishment - the process seems to work fine initially but then colour quality and evenness disintegrates...
And as I recently put it in another thread, there still should be made a test in amateur processing with in parallel processing film in the very minumum volume as in rotary processing and and in a surplus bath with about 3x that volume and a critical examination.
That's the only thing I can tell from my own experience and I think it's similar for most Jobo users. Which means you may very well be (and probably are) correct about the used developer being out of spec in terms of halide content and possibly developer oxidation. The difference here, I think, boils down to if "adequate" is good enough, or "exactly in spec" is required.Working adequately? Probably yes, more or less.
Yes, but a more revealing test would probably be to take the developer, at the completion of development, and use it to develop only a "process control strip" (or other small test strip). A lot of people would probably be surprised at how "bad" the developer has become by the end of the processing run.
A bath not proccesing adequately in its is second run not necessarily must have been too bad for yielding in first run results up to standards.
Or do you see that differently?
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