Flash bulbs.

Helge · Jul 6, 2020

I haven't let that hold me back.

Next up: How do I do fill flash correctly with bulbs?

BrianShaw · Jul 6, 2020

Helge said:
I haven't let that hold me back.

Next up: How do I do fill flash correctly with bulbs?

Tables and calculators...

AgX · Jul 6, 2020

At X-sync the the trigger switch is operated the moment the shutter is completely open.

At M-sync the trigger switch is operated prematurely, so that the peak of the combustion of a flash bulb of the M-range happens at the moment of full opening of the shutter (what above is the X-moment).

AgX · Jul 6, 2020

Helge said:
Next up: How do I do fill flash correctly with bulbs?

To some extent the output of a flash bulb can be controlled by the reflector (no reflector, half reflector (at fan reflectors), by a front diffusor and by the synchronisation.

However the main means to control fill-light is the shutter-speed as (within the limits this thread is about) such only controls the ambient light.
And thus a deliberate ratio between ambient- and fill-light can be achieved.

eli griggs · Jul 6, 2020

You can probably tweak the fill flash, especially if you've an leaf shutter of 1/500th, with ND filters, in addition to the bulb holder, especially in constant light or using Sunny 16 guides.

I've never use my flash gun except with some Type 41 Polaroid i a 110b but I would only do now so with the use of a lens hood, unless I was trying to incorporate the wildness of some older bulbs into the overall look, especially with a hand held holder.

I think I may have a four or five 'cube' of GE bulbs and a couple of older round and oval bulbs scattered here or there, but that's it and unless a cousin that cleans other folks attics, sheds and garages, And looks out for camera kit for me, brings me some, I don't know that I'd buy any of the internet Esell stores.

What about Russian or FSU sources?
IMO.

AgX · Jul 6, 2020

Especially the tiny AG types, be they plain or incorporated in a cube, are powerful sources of flash light if volume or weight matters.
A necessity also to minature cameras as the Minox. It's very own electronic flash is a multiple of camera volume of course...

Of course, if one is used to autoexposure electronic flashes, one has to think a bit.

Helge · Jul 6, 2020

- It’s at the very least an 283 or SB-28 equal in power. In a far smaller package, how much of course depending on your gun and how many shots you need. But with film it’s rare that you need more than five or so for some random Sunday shoot.
- Much more flexible and I’d say overall higher quality light. Bare bulb, reflected or diffused.
- No HIRF effects that I suspect a lot of the usual “flash look” comes from.
- Captures movement/allows main lighting throughout the shutters open state.
Thus less subdued light trails or ghosts at slower speeds.
- No high voltage electronics involved.

AgX · Jul 6, 2020

No high voltage electronics involved.

However a dramatic combustion and the risk of an explosion.
To be fair, I have not come across a bulb with safety lacquer that actually emitted glass splinters

But, never use a bulb with pink indicator.
At least with bulbs without indicator or without lacquer always use a shield in front of the bulb.

wiltw · Jul 6, 2020

The Tilt-a-Mite comes in two versions, and they differ in what kinds of bulbs they accept.
Both can use "AG", "M" in M2 or M3 versions.
The Tilt-a-mite 1 can additionally accept #5/25 bulbs.
The Tilt-a-mite 2 cannot fire the M5, as it has less current delivered than the Tilt-a-mite 1.

Helge · Nov 19, 2021

Anyone know of a good E27 (Edison) flashgun with a universal bracket (not dedicated to say a Speed Graphic).
I have a bunch of E27 bulbs I'd like use, and while building one would be doable, I know it's going to take a long time to get it in a finished state.
Is the Minicam guns good?https://www.cameramanuals.org/flashes_meters/minicam_flash_units.pdf
Seems to be the only brand I can readily find.

eli griggs · Nov 19, 2021

You might consider the small Ansco 75 Flash Gun, which takes type 25 bulbs and, if needed, an adapter.

Cheers and do let us know your final decision and sastafaction, when you do find a flash gun to use.

Good luck!

Helge · Nov 19, 2021

eli griggs said:
You might consider the small Ansco 75 Flash Gun, which takes type 25 bulbs and, if needed, an adapter.

Cheers and do let us know your final decision and sastafaction, when you do find a flash gun to use.

Good luck!

Doesn’t look like it’s E27 screwbase.
Can’t see how an adapter wouldn’t make the bulb stick out to a ridiculous degree .

bdial · Nov 19, 2021

All of those flash guns that took D batteries are pretty similar. I have had a few different ones that came with various graflex kits and there isn't much difference as to what would be quality or not. Just that one became the model for the light saber and the others didn't.
I would judge on condition, especially for the battery chamber and whether whatever internal wiring seems intact.
You might need to cobble up some sort of mount, but some have a generic sort of mount. The old Honeywell "Strobinar" handle mount flashes had clamp and bracket that would probably fit most of the D cell screwbase flash handles. You might be able to find one of those cheap on ebay to harvest for the clamp.

Many of those flashes had separate reflectors for different bulbs, so even a relatively small handle with a screw adapter would work if you had the appropriate reflector on it.

juan · Nov 19, 2021

I have a big Honeywell that came with an adapter that fits down into the flash bulb hole. The E27 bulb screws into the adapter. It doesn’t stick up much. The reflector is a bit deeper and taller than most flashes. I’d search for Honeywell’s.

wiltw · Nov 19, 2021

Helge said:
I haven't let that hold me back.

Next up: How do I do fill flash correctly with bulbs?

Let us start with assumption that Flashbulb P25 is GN280 for ISO 100 at 1/100, or GN135 for 1/400 (taken from real data sheet), and let us assume bright sunlight with subject at 20'...
Sunny 16 says ISO 100 shutter 1/100 f/16 for sunlight shooting. We manipulate flashbulb intensity via control of shutter speed...

With 1/100, I need f/14...too strong of Fill.
if I choose shutter speed 1/400 in order for fill to be about -2EV compared to sunlight...some help with fill, but not strong enough!
if I choose shutter speed 1/200, my fill will be about -1EV compared to sunlight...about right!

But 1/200 shutter underexposes the sunlight by -1EV! So if I compensate with choice of f/11 aperture, but my flill flash will be close to same intensity as sunlight. However, consider that light is additive...the flash illumination brightens the areas illuminated by sunlight, so while the Fill areas are a bit darker than sun+flash illuminated areas, the lighting will not be totally no-contrast (flat) but low contrast.
In this example, it sorta works. But fill flash with bulbs is more difficult to achieve than using electronic flash with its controllable power. One issue is that not only does Guide Number change with shutter speed, but because of the width of the peak output, one is somewhat limited in the range with which shutter speed can be altered (although focal plane shutter impose restrictions of their own with electronic flash)

eli griggs · Nov 20, 2021

I've never used an adapter for bulb flash, so how it would fit into a small unit like I suggested is an open question, but adapters seems a reasonable compromise, until you find the flash gun of your dreams.

Cheers.

Helge said:
Doesn’t look like it’s E27 screwbase.
Can’t see how an adapter wouldn’t make the bulb stick out to a ridiculous degree .

AgX · Nov 20, 2021

Helge said:
I have a bunch of E27 bulbs. Is the Minicam guns good?Seems to be the only brand I can readily find.

I find this surprising. I never ever came across any screw-base bulb nor any respective flash.

Helge · Nov 20, 2021

AgX said:
I find this surprising. I never ever came across any screw-base bulb nor any respective flash.

You’d be surprised what hides in peoples attics and cellar rooms.
I too had never seen one, other than in museum settings until recently. And then about a year ago I was overwhelmed with opportunities to buy screw bulbs.
I have plenty for the foreseeable future right now.
Don’t pay eBay prices or anything close and don’t buy them in anything but lots.
Five to teen at a time simply gets too expensive.

Screwbulbs live a dangerous life in that people mistake them for old, possibly faulty, regular bulbs. Kids discover a few and waste them on pointless games.
Or they are held hostage forever by greedy idiots who get ideas from eBay about how much something is “worth”.
Never ever pay more than €$£ 0.3 per bulb.
En masse you should pay a lot less.

They are not collectors items, no museum is interested in more.
They are useable great photographic items. But is never more than a means to an end.

AgX · Nov 20, 2021

Helge said:
You’d be surprised what hides in people attics and cellar rooms.

I acquired all my photo stuff from fleamarkets, thrift stores and rummage boxes. So I guess I got some insight what is offered here this way.
I got over thousand bulbs, but the largest I got is M3 (used at Polaroid cameras).

In (West-) Germany very early electronic flashes were used by professional photographers.

Helge · Nov 20, 2021

AgX said:
I acquired all my photo stuff from fleamarkets, thrift stores and rummage boxes. So I guess I got some insight what is offered here this way.
I got over thousand bulbs, but the largest I got is M3 (used at Polaroid cameras).

In (West-) Germany very early electronic flashes were used by professional photographers.

I got my screw bulbs from former pros, or remnants from studio lots.
For a surprisingly long time bulbs was king for the amount and colour of light they put out.
Into the 80s some studio and specialty photographers swore by bulbs.
Even today spelunkers use bulbs because of their huge real guide numbers, their hemispherical light, robustness and small size.

AgX · Nov 20, 2021

Interesting to learn that neighbouring countries were worlds apart in lighting.

Helge · Nov 20, 2021

AgX said:
Interesting to learn that neighbouring countries were worlds apart in lighting.

Yeah, you would have thought that Germany with the general conservatism and idealism would have held on to the technically superior option for as long as possible. ;-)
I have Camera Mainichi #3 from 1980 in front of me, and I can see at least two adds pertaining bulb flash products. So Japan too.

backseatpilot · Jun 10, 2022

Hopefully this is the right place to ask this... graflex.org mentions that an adapter exists to use "midget" bulbs in the 5" reflector for the Graflite flash guns. Does anyone know what that looks like, or a model number or something? I came across some M5 bulbs and was interested in trying to use them.

BrianShaw · Jun 10, 2022

backseatpilot said:
Hopefully this is the right place to ask this... graflex.org mentions that an adapter exists to use "midget" bulbs in the 5" reflector for the Graflite flash guns. Does anyone know what that looks like, or a model number or something? I came across some M5 bulbs and was interested in trying to use them.

This is probably worth your time to read.

Graflex Graflite instruction manual, PDF user manual

Graflex Graflite instruction manual

www.butkus.org

Adapters, generally, are plentiful on eBay. This one for adapting Nr 5/25 to the 7-inch reflector:

PHOTO FLASH GUN BULB ADAPTER--VINTAGE SCREW BASE BULB TO BAYONET BULB CONVERTER | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for PHOTO FLASH GUN BULB ADAPTER--VINTAGE SCREW BASE BULB TO BAYONET BULB CONVERTER at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

And, of course, I can’t find an example of what you are looking for. If I can find one I’ll post a link. So much for me saying they are “plentiful “. LOL

See picture 4 in this link to see the adapter for M5 bulb to Nr 5/25 bayonet socket (5-inch Graflex reflector)

VINTAGE ~ WALZ FLASH MASTER, BULB, BULB ADAPTER | eBay

The power cord has dry rot but the actual wires appear to be intact. It has a battery in it and there are no signs of corrosion. This is a non-tested item. YOU WILL RECEIVE EXACTLY THE ITEM(S) PICTURED.

www.ebay.com

backseatpilot · Jun 10, 2022

BrianShaw said:
This is probably worth your time to read.

Graflex Graflite instruction manual, PDF user manual

Graflex Graflite instruction manual

www.butkus.org

Adapters, generally, are plentiful on eBay. This one for adapting Nr 5/25 to the 7-inch reflector:

PHOTO FLASH GUN BULB ADAPTER--VINTAGE SCREW BASE BULB TO BAYONET BULB CONVERTER | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for PHOTO FLASH GUN BULB ADAPTER--VINTAGE SCREW BASE BULB TO BAYONET BULB CONVERTER at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Thanks, I've read through that manual before. I was hoping to find some better search terms for eBay since most of the results seem to be Edison-to-bayonet adapters.

Flash bulbs.

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