First SLR

removedacct2 · Mar 30, 2023

Lucius said:
I would recommend against Zenits and Prakticas: they have dim viewfinders, and while they could be reliable, they are far from smooth. The best budget option is the Fujica ST605 and ST605n: in the UK these sell for about £20 in full working order. ... earlier Chinon ... Cosina

you are more to the point. Many do forget that OP is in Spain, and the 2nd hand market structure is probably very different than in the USA. There's also no point with a cheap camera on Ebay USA, because shipment+VAT will cost much more than the camera.
I guess british market may be more similar to spanish one, somewhat.
Typically in continental Europe the Fujica ST are cheap, the Chinon also, the Cosina I mentioned too, some old Ricoh Singlex.
German mmail orders rebrandings were very popular in the 70's and 80's in Western Europe, and were reselling Praktica, Chinon a lot, some Petri and couple others (besides Zenit). More recent cameras cheap are the Minolta Dynax, and consumer plastic Canon and Nikon.

when you see something on Ebay-USA selling for 25, it means shipment+VAT to Europe is 30-35+20/25%, If you buy something intra-UE no VAT and shipment 15-20 and domestic in Spain in the 12 I think.

here a cheap Spotmatic, sold in Japan, 12$. With shipment+VAT to my place in Norway (in Yurop): 64$ :

with a small budget, OP has to search Ebay or Catawiki inside UE, so no VAT and ok shipment or domestically, and for Spain I don't know very well but there's at least milanuncios.com.
A 10€ Dynax body with minor cosmetic flaws:

a M42 Petri from mail order Porst, under their Carena brand, with normal lens and a zoom, 50€

xkaes · Mar 30, 2023

Huss said:
Yeah, but when that's what they want, you then try to point them to the best version of that.

There is nothing in the original post that suggests a "mechanical camera".

All I read is "Any thoughts or recommendations on cheap SLRs for beginners?"

Top of the pile is the MAXXUM 5.

xkaes · Mar 30, 2023

Huss said:
If she got a Minolta or Canon, none of her lenses would work on AF versions of those cameras, as the lens mounts are completely different.

So now your suggesting she buy two cameras.

If she gets a MAXXUM 5, she won't need to think about upgrading.

Huss · Mar 30, 2023

138bb said:
Hi, guys! New user here.

I’m looking for an SLR for beginners. I want to learn how to use a manual camera. I’ve been using a P&S but it’s starting to feel boring.

I have a small budget and I would prefer not to expend more than 50€. I have already made some research but I’m not sure which camera should I pick. I’ve been looking at Zenit 12 and some Praktica (MTL3, LTL3, MTL 5B, MTL 50, Super TL1000…).

I’ve also been looking for some Canon AV1, but seem to be a lot more expensive

Any thoughts or recommendations on cheap SLRs for beginners?

Thank you

xkaes said:
There is nothing in the original post that suggests a "mechanical camera".

All I read is "Any thoughts or recommendations on cheap SLRs for beginners?"

Top of the pile is the MAXXUM 5.

Of course there is nothing in her original post that suggests a mechanical camera, apart from the fact she mentions manual camera, and then lists SEVEN mechanical cameras.

Nope, nothing at all.....

Huss · Mar 30, 2023

xkaes said:
So now your suggesting she buy two cameras.

If she gets a MAXXUM 5, she won't need to think about upgrading.

No, I am saying a Maxxum is perhaps the worst suggestion out of all the AF slrs because it uses a lens mount that only works with later generation AF lenses.

A Nikon or Pentax AF slr can also use old manual Nikon and Pentax lenses, so the OP if decides on either first getting an old Nikon or Pentax, can later use that lens on a newer AF one, and vice versa.

But apart from that your suggestion is spot on, being not only not what the OP is looking for, but also incompatible with any future choices for backwards compatibility.

xkaes · Mar 30, 2023

Huss said:
Nope, nothing at all.....

You finally got it right.

xkaes · Mar 30, 2023

Huss said:
...backwards compatibility.

Exactly what a NEWBIE needs! What was I thinking?

KerrKid · Mar 30, 2023

Huss said:
Of course there is nothing in her original post that suggests a mechanical camera, apart from the fact she mentions manual camera, and then lists SEVEN mechanical cameras.

Nope, nothing at all.....

Plus a Canon AV-1 which is not strictly a manual camera. And then later is considering an SRT-101.

I think the OP just wants an affordable camera that isn’t as automated as a P&S and not necessarily a completely manual one or the mention of the AV-1 would not have been made.

Why don’t we all kick in and send her enough money to get something decent? If everyone on this thread ponied up $20 it’d be a done deal.

Autonerd · Mar 31, 2023

xkaes said:
All I read is "Any thoughts or recommendations on cheap SLRs for beginners?"

You should have read the sentence that followed immediately after: "I want to learn how to use a manual camera. I’ve been using a P&S but it’s starting to feel boring."

Aaron

xkaes · Mar 31, 2023

Huss said:
Pay attention, the OP wants an SLR.

xkaes · Mar 31, 2023

KerrKid said:
Why don’t we all kick in and send her enough money to get something decent? If everyone on this thread ponied up $20 it’d be a done deal.

$20 EACH? Are you nuts? If we all kicked in 0.50¢ each, we could get her a MAXXUM 5 with TWO zoom lenses.

Lucius · Mar 31, 2023

xkaes said:

This Argus-Sekor 58mm f1.7 lens is hardly a budget choice!

xkaes · Mar 31, 2023

Lucius said:
This Argus-Sekor 58mm f1.7 lens is hardly a budget choice!

I wasn't suggesting that this camera is a bargain, but since everyone else seems to be suggesting cameras that hardly meet the OPs request for "Any recommendations on cheap SLRs for beginners?" I'd join in.

Lucius · Mar 31, 2023

xkaes said:
I wasn't suggesting that this camera is a bargain, but since everyone else seems to be suggesting cameras that hardly meet the OPs request for "Any recommendations on cheap SLRs for beginners?" I'd join in.

I was just reacting to its being on my wish-list (though preferably in m42).

138bb · Mar 31, 2023

Hi guys!

As @antonio_b said, market in Spain is quite different from America. I looked up all the cameras suggested, and some of them are sadly way expensive here.

I live in a small town, the nearest city has some antique shops but very few cameras. Most of them overpriced though. Also no second hand markets or garage sales where I live. Unfortunately, I would say garage sales are not common at all in Spain

I do want a fully mechanical camera so it forces me to actually learn how everything works. I know it won't be easy as a newbie, but I don't mind torturing myself.

I'm considering a Minolta as I said before, but I have doubts because of the lenses. Should I get one with M42 lenses?? I know I can use an adapter on the Minolta, but if I got a camera with M42 mount in the future, is it possible to use Minolta lenses with an adapter on a camera that uses M42?

PS: I would gladly accept donations to get a camera asap

koraks · Mar 31, 2023

138bb said:
I do want a fully mechanical camera so it forces me to actually learn how everything works. I know it won't be easy as a newbie, but I don't mind torturing myself.

Any camera that has full manual functionality will do. It doesn't have to be fully mechanical. If you drop that requirement, you're opening up a lot more possibilities for yourself. This will then include a variety of options that may be quite affordable, and many of the 1990s-era 'electronic' cameras turn out to be very reliable performers as well. Cameras like the Canon 1000(f/fn etc.) have never been particularly popular among the 'vintage' crowd, but are relatively plentiful in Europe. As a result, they can often be picked up cheaply, and many/most of them work fine. There are several other options along these lines.

If you insist on a 'fully mechanical' system, you're essentially convicting yourself to 1960s and 1970s cameras (or even earlier), that are either functional but expensive (because popular), or in bad state but possibly cheap (but you'll have to invest time & money to get them to work properly).

When starting out, I personally think you're best served with something that works reliably. Combined with a tight budget, that means the plethora of 1990s electronic cameras are particularly attracive. Most of them allow full manual operation, so they also fit the bill in that respect.

PS: the 'full manual' think will not make you a better photographer.

xkaes · Mar 31, 2023

138bb said:
is it possible to use Minolta lenses with an adapter on a camera that uses M42?

Unfortunately not. But given your budget, if you can get a $20 camera in Madrid, and it costs $20 to ship it to you, that's still a good deal.

KerrKid · Mar 31, 2023

koraks said:
Any camera that has full manual functionality will do. It doesn't have to be fully mechanical. If you drop that requirement, you're opening up a lot more possibilities for yourself. This will then include a variety of options that may be quite affordable, and many of the 1990s-era 'electronic' cameras turn out to be very reliable performers as well. Cameras like the Canon 1000(f/fn etc.) have never been particularly popular among the 'vintage' crowd, but are relatively plentiful in Europe. As a result, they can often be picked up cheaply, and many/most of them work fine. There are several other options along these lines.

If you insist on a 'fully mechanical' system, you're essentially convicting yourself to 1960s and 1970s cameras (or even earlier), that are either functional but expensive (because popular), or in bad state but possibly cheap (but you'll have to invest time & money to get them to work properly).

When starting out, I personally think you're best served with something that works reliably. Combined with a tight budget, that means the plethora of 1990s electronic cameras are particularly attracive. Most of them allow full manual operation, so they also fit the bill in that respect.

PS: the 'full manual' think will not make you a better photographer.

This is very good advice. Plan on getting a handheld light meter and a battery adapter for those 1960's and 1970's cameras, too. Of course, they will need to be cleaned, lubed, and the shutter calibrated. Not to mention new light seals installed. I always figure in $80-100 USD for service on top of the purchase price of the old cameras. That's just me.

xkaes · Mar 31, 2023

Looks like were getting back into the "chip in $20 each" category.

Lucius · Mar 31, 2023

KerrKid said:
This is very good advice. Plan on getting a handheld light meter and a battery adapter for those 1960's and 1970's cameras, too. Of course, they will need to be cleaned, lubed, and the shutter calibrated. Not to mention new light seals installed.

I disagree. Over the last year, I bought off Ebay over a dozen m42 cameras at less than £40, and many of these work fairly well (including light meters) with no CLA.

xkaes · Mar 31, 2023

Lucius said:
I disagree. Over the last year, I bought off Ebay over a dozen m42 cameras at less than £40, and many of these work fairly well (including light meters) with no CLA.

That may well be, but it's still at least TWICE what needs to be paid for a much more current SLR with many more features -- INCLUDING full manual control, AND a couple of lenses.

Lucius · Mar 31, 2023

138bb said:
PS: I would gladly accept donations to get a camera asap

Speaking of donations, I could let you have a working Praktica MTL3 with a 50mm lens for the price of postage (some £15, which is about the price of a roll of film). I know I advised against Zenits and Prakticas, but this would let you try the m42 system out and decide whether you want to invest into a better m42 body or change over to another system without significant loss.

M42 lenses can often be adapted to later and more advanced systems, though not without a loss of functionality, but not usually the other way round.

xkaes · Mar 31, 2023

Talk about a DEAL!!! Plus, it will built up her upper body muscles. WIN-WIN.

138bb · Mar 31, 2023

Lucius said:
Speaking of donations, I could let you have a working Praktica MTL3 with a 50mm lens for the price of postage (some £15, which is about the price of a roll of film). I know I advised against Zenits and Prakticas, but this would let you try the m42 system out and decide whether you want to invest into a better m42 body or change over to another system without significant loss.

M42 lenses can often be adapted to later and more advanced systems, though not without a loss of functionality, but not usually the other way round.

That's very kind of you! Thank you but as I have a really small budget atm I prefer to spend every penny on a camera of my own.

I'll make a list later of the cameras I've found within my budget with price, condition, seller reputation, etc so you can give me your thoughts on what to pick.

xkaes said:
Talk about a DEAL!!! Plus, it will built up her upper body muscles. WIN-WIN.

that's great! I will be able to work out outside the gym too

Lucius · Mar 31, 2023

138bb said:
That's very kind of you! Thank you but as I have a really small budget atm I prefer to spend every penny on a camera of my own.

Sure, that makes sense. Though if you do wish to take your first SLR seriously, you need to consider how you see it as a system. What kind of lenses do you want to have? Will a standard 50mm lens be enough? Will you want to add a wide and a tele lens at a later point? Or rather a zoom? If you do plan to have several prime lenses in different lengths, it will usually be cheaper to buy them as a set. I realise that these are the kind of questions that are difficult to answer without a prior experience with SLRs, but if you do want to avoid extra expense, they may be worth thinking about.

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