First SLR

[Yashica]

Well, if one does need AF, i'd suggest the Nikon F60. Whileas the F60, i do hear all your complaints hereby in my ears, you'd ask.
Simply for that reasons:

1) better build quality than the N65/F65 and N75/F75 bodies, they look like a Toy SLR vs the F60.
2) bright, bigger all glas pentaprism vs a smaller, dim-lit pentamirror on the bodies above
3) It's dirt cheap, paid like 579 DM into 1998 my 1st copy, but only 10 EUR last week for my 2nd iteration
4) dependable lightmeter, it works great
5) no frills, back to basic as it could get via a 35mm AF SLR, nothing, what you don't need
6) real hard off switch, unlike the mentioned SLRs, preserve battery life
7) Old AF-D, AF-G lenses would work perfectly fine
8) I also do own a double of the N80/F80 and F100 Nikons, for unsecure locations, -spots, i always choose the F60.
9) Nikons 28-70/3.5-4.5D is optically really nice, very cheap as small standard Zoom, it was one of two Kitlenses for the F100...
10) One would being surprised, with a low spec'd SLR, that you only focus about compostion, no features, nothing to fiddle,
play with around...use it for some weeks, months...years...and you'd know what i said.
11) with a little TLC, it basically lasts forever, if nothing breaks here.
12) quality of the images is dependend of the mounted lens, and which 35mm film
13) Last, but not least, good, big handgrip, even bigger than the N80/F80.
14) 3D Matrix Metering with AF-D, AF-G lenses

Cons:
1) only 1 AF Point (not an issue really)
2) No AF-S, VR lenses support
3) one dial is sufficent, even 2 dials would being fine to adjust aperture/shutter speed at the same time

As for non AF 35mm SLRs, i'd suggest a Minolta XD5, XD7, or X700. These bodies do have all a huge, bright OVF.
Many great Minolta MD series (MD, MD-II/III lenses are being avialable, for little prices, but great optically)

As alternative, a cheap Yashica FX-3 Super 2000, or FX-1, or FR-I...these are all very cheap nowadays, and greatly working,
one could always upgrade via C/Y Contax Yashica mount to better spec'd Zeiss lenses, but the Yashica ML series is no slouch,
for real. I am using them, and the Contax MM series since decades...as well as Minolta MD III....

But into the end, any cheap 35mm SLR would do, whatever mount or system. I do prefer 35mm as my #1 focal length, 40mm as my
2nd, and 50mm is okay, but not my prefered one. The rest is into 1-2 Zooms, usually.

A good idea (M42) is also any Pentax Spotmatic series, with M42, there are many quality, and cheap lenses for that mount
being avialable nowadays.

Good light.

 

[Yashica]

Hi, guys! New user here.

I’m looking for an SLR for beginners. I want to learn how to use a manual camera. I’ve been using a P&S but it’s starting to feel boring.

I have a small budget and I would prefer not to expend more than 50€. I have already made some research but I’m not sure which camera should I pick. I’ve been looking at Zenit 12 and some Praktica (MTL3, LTL3, MTL 5B, MTL 50, Super TL1000…).

I’ve also been looking for some Canon AV1, but seem to be a lot more expensive

Any thoughts or recommendations on cheap SLRs for beginners?

Thank you

Hi there,

i also use the Praktica Super TL1000, MTL5 bodies. Many good, great M42 lenses are being avialable.
The Praktica's are simply like a tank, they're just going strong, over decades, without a CLA yet.

I've posted something before, about a 35mm AF SLR, just into case. If you've got 50 bucks to spent,
the ideal walking by combo would being a F60 with matching zoom, either way the 28-70 AF-D (not F2.8 of course),
or the Tamron 28-105/4-5.6 AF-D. That's what i use as a cheapskate setup, #3 35mm System for unsecure locations,
it never failed me since 1998. Both lenses could produce great images, and i've seen even good ones with Pyro developer
on Flickr...so there's still something IQ to squeeze out of these lenses, with matching film. And i do own also the
big 28-70/2.8 ED AF-S "gun", but that tank is way heavy, even onto say my F80 or F100 with attached battery grip...and
none is looking lucky, if i point that bazooka into some face onto the street...

For M42, 50 bucks doesn't work, for any Praktica body yet alone of course, but not for a matching, decent 35mm lens,
that means 35mm focal length, not 50mm....well, cheap M42 nifty-fifty's are like sand on the beach... If that's what
you're looking for, of course would do (always) <50 EUR.

 

[xkaes]

There are TWO like-new MINOLTA MAXXUM 5 cameras on EBAY right now. One is at $20 with one zoom lens, the other is $25 with TWO zooms. The 150 page manual is free on line.

 

[Yashica]

If i could get a black Minolta Alpha Sweet II for a bargain inside germany, i'd being interested.

 

[Moose22]

I have an F3 but never shot it… Still looks hard… I prefer rangefinders or AutoFocus SLR

I never thought the F3 was my favorite. But once I got to love the meter I used it a lot. I bought a second, jsut to get the P focus screen in it, and it didnt' take me long to get the focusing right. It IS different than rangefinders, though, and I totally get what you're comfortable with. Shooting my Leica or S3 takes a moment for me to reorient, and then going back to MF SLRs again... it's easy, but I still say shoot what you love to shoot.

I also shoot a lot of AF. My most used camera, the only one with more rolls than the F3, is an F6, and I've had the N80 loaded with film since I bought it a while back. It has all the modes, but I can just switch it to M and zone system with the spot meter, the autofocus isn't sports fast but it works and doesn't fight me, and the fill flash is worth it's weight in the $30 I spent on the camera.

 

[Yashica]

I loved the F3, yet alone the Film transport via advance lever is silky smooth...and with ball bearing. But the F3 is a huge thing, with the HP OVF,
and my XD7 is smaller into contrast, so are my other 35mm SLRs, for instance. And especially for Minolta, the 35/2.8 MD is very good, better than Nikon.
Into the end - whatever makes you happy, the choice is yours.

 

[KerrKid]

Still, OM2n with 2 lenses for $47, provided all in good and fully working condition, was a steal.

The OM2n is an 8/10. Needs news seals, but very clean.

The lenses are in great shape but odd choices for this camera IMO. One is a Zuiko MC Auto-Macro 50mm f3.5 and the other is a Vivitar Series 1 70-210mm f3.5 Macro Focusing Auto Zoom. The 70-210 is huge and outweighs the camera. I would have preferred the 40mm f2. Ha.

I agree that sometimes someone finds Grandpa’s cameras and just wants a quick sale. I look for those deals and that’s what the OP should do. Why no one else bids on them or bids way low is anyone’s guess. I threw out a Hail Mary $50 bid on the OM2n and won it for $47. Go figure.

I think my like-new Vivitar 420/SL for $5 was the best deal, however. These cameras are incredible values and, for some reason, look like someone bought them and then put them in a museum.

 

[Radost]

There are TWO like-new MINOLTA MAXXUM 5 cameras on EBAY right now. One is at $20 with one zoom lens, the other is $25 with TWO zooms. The 150 page manual is free on line.

It’s criminal how cheap those are. I have 10 already and shoot them all the time.
If you get the black Japanese version it has a cool panorama crop.

 

[Hassasin]

The OM2n is an 8/10. Needs news seals, but very clean.

The lenses are in great shape but odd choices for this camera IMO. One is a Zuiko MC Auto-Macro 50mm f3.5 and the other is a Vivitar Series 1 70-210mm f3.5 Macro Focusing Auto Zoom. The 70-210 is huge and outweighs the camera. I would have preferred the 40mm f2. Ha.

I agree that sometimes someone finds Grandpa’s cameras and just wants a quick sale. I look for those deals and that’s what the OP should do. Why no one else bids on them or bids way low is anyone’s guess. I threw out a Hail Mary $50 bid on the OM2n and won it for $47. Go figure.

I think my like-new Vivitar 420/SL for $5 was the best deal, however. These cameras are incredible values and, for some reason, look like someone bought them and then put them in a museum.

Indeed strange lens choices for that one. Any prime from 24 to about 100 will be great to mount it on without putting body into the background. Also 35-70 f3.6 zoom is excellent and can be had for good price ... with patience of course.

 

[Chan Tran]

I have an F3 but never shot it… Still looks hard… I prefer rangefinders or AutoFocus SLR

To each his own. My F3 has no split image rangefinder. I don't want an SLR and use the range finder for focusing. I want to be able to focus on any part of the screen. No focus and recompose for me.

 

[Huss]

The OM2n is an 8/10. Needs news seals, but very clean.

The lenses are in great shape but odd choices for this camera IMO. One is a Zuiko MC Auto-Macro 50mm f3.5 and the other is a Vivitar Series 1 70-210mm f3.5 Macro Focusing Auto Zoom. The 70-210 is huge and outweighs the camera. I would have preferred the 40mm f2. Ha.

..

One has to remember the era for those lens choices, especially the 70-210 zoom. At that point in time, that was THE lens to have, with all the mfgs big and small offering a 70-210, 80-200 etc. Everyone had to have one, and I bought the same Vivitar Series 1 for my OM-10. Of course I basically never used it, but it was so cool at the time!

The Macro 50 3.5 is more of a curious choice though. Normally it would have been the 50 1.8.

 

[xkaes]

It’s criminal how cheap those are. I have 10 already and shoot them all the time.
If you get the black Japanese version it has a cool panorama crop.

I had no idea there is a black version, but I suspect they would sell for a lot more. I've been lucky to find a couple of the hard-to-find BP-200 battery packs for next to nothing. The camera itself is so small and light, the battery packs -- which are pretty small as well -- make the MAXXUM 5 feel better in my hands.

 

[cliveh]

That was a result of marketing not actual best value for learning. And sadly that is reflected in its price, so over the wall for long years now. When still in production it was priced ok, but then the myth of “best student camera” took over and the rest is history.

for leaning manual shooting Maxxum is not the one, too many bells and whistles. Minolta from X range is definitely excellent, XG-M certainly great value, but also X-370

But 50€ budget will take some patience to find body/ lens combo. They are out there just not on a moment’s notice.

I beg to differ. It was not as a result of marketing, it was the result of thousands of students using this camera as a learning tool. It became over priced because it was so good as a basic SLR. Built like a tank with all the basic functions and no bells and whistles. It does what it says on the tin.

 

[MattKing]

The K1000 is sort of a self fulfilling prophecy. It was designed to be a good basic student camera, it was sold as such in relatively large quantities and many students learned a lot using it. So its success doing that meant that more were ordered and used. Eventually a lot of students who learned on it became teachers or administrators themselves, and as a result of the camera's basic suitability and availability, it continued being made and purchased for the same use.
In hindsight, a KX or KM or a SRT-101 or a few others might have been better for the purpose, but Pentax did what they did, and it worked quite well.

 

[GRHazelton]

The K1000 is sort of a self fulfilling prophecy. It was designed to be a good basic student camera, it was sold as such in relatively large quantities and many students learned a lot using it. So its success doing that meant that more were ordered and used. Eventually a lot of students who learned on it became teachers or administrators themselves, and as a result of the camera's basic suitability and availability, it continued being made and purchased for the same use.
In hindsight, a KX or KM or a SRT-101 or a few others might have been better for the purpose, but Pentax did what they did, and it worked quite well.

I still maintain that a student camera should incorporate some means for the student to SEE the relationship between lens aperture depth of field. As I've stated before the K1000 doesn't allow this without partially dismounting the lens. The Praktica LTL and the redoubtable Pentax Spotmatics can display depth of field, as can the Pentax KX and many other cameras.

 

[MattKing]

I still maintain that a student camera should incorporate some means for the student to SEE the relationship between lens aperture depth of field. As I've stated before the K1000 doesn't allow this without partially dismounting the lens. The Praktica LTL and the redoubtable Pentax Spotmatics can display depth of field, as can the Pentax KX and many other cameras.

Yep, that would have been helpful.
But unless you have a time machine .......

 

[Autonerd]

Hi, guys! New user here.

I’m looking for an SLR for beginners. I want to learn how to use a manual camera. I’ve been using a P&S but it’s starting to feel boring.

Welcome!

I would look at Ricoh SLRs -- specifically either the KR-10 (not the KR-10M or KR-10 Super) or the XR-2 (or XR-2s), made late 70s/early 80s. I own a few and they are my go-to knock-about cameras.

These are fully-manual cameras, though they do have an aperture-priority automatic mode (which you can ignore, though I use it quite often). They have electronically-controlled shutters, so the shutter speeds should be fairly accurate. And they use Pentax K-Mount lenses, which are plentiful and affordable. They use commonly-available LR-44 batteries. The XR-2s has just about every feature offered in a manual-focus SLR, including an analog match-needle meter display (best kind in my opinion), DOF preview, self-timer, and, for the XR-2s, even an aperture preview in the viewfinder.

Lenses: The Rikenon lenses are fine; like the cameras they are a bit cheap-feeling (plastic barrels) but do the job well. (Avoid the Rikenon 50/2.2, though.) The Pentax-M 50/1.7 is a gem that is cheaply priced because Pentax made a billion of them, and there are plenty of K-mount Vivitar lenses out there, which was all us poor students could afford in the 1990s.

I have bought several Ricohs (they were also sold as Sears cameras in the US -- KSX and KS Auto, respectively) and I've paid between US$15 and $40, including a lens (usually the Rikenon 50/1.7). They are a little plasticky and unrefined, but they are magnificent cameras and a bargain price.

KR-10 Super is similar but has a less-usable LCD meter display and a hair-trigger shutter. I own one and don't like it as much. KR-10M is an auto-wind camera and not something I'd recommend. If you want auto-wind, you can get a more sophisticated camera for less $$. Ricoh does make a non-electronic model, XR-1, with similar features to the XR-2, but I've had little luck finding one that didn't need repair or service, which will blow your budget. XR-6 is an auto-only model that probably won't give you what you want. XR-7 is an advanded model but has the meter/shutter of the KR-10 Super. Not bad but not my first choice.

If you don't bulk-roll film, the Pentax P30t is another underrated camera, cheap and plasticky but very simple. (There are other P3/P30 models; P30t is the one I prefer.) Also K-mount compatible, and it can use Pentax A lenses and run in full auto mode. Problems: They get film speed from the DX code on the cannister (no manual override) and it's not easy to find a working one -- but if you do, it should cost less than US$20. A very limited camera, but good if you can work within its limitations.

I'll have more to say about some of the other recommendations, but in the mean time: Ricoh! Ricoh! Ricoh!

Aaron

 

[Autonerd]

Check out the Minolta MAXXUM 5. And amazing DO-IT-ALL camera. I have three of them -- I got each one, like, new, with lenses, for under $25 each. Built-in flash, built in motor drive, tiny body.

I agree the 5 is amazing (bot mine for $17 shipped) but I don't think it's what the OP is looking for. It's auto-focus, and while it does have a manual mode, setting all that with buttons and dials doesn't give the old-school tactile feel that I think most manual-camera-seekers are seeking.

Aaron

 

[Autonerd]

I beg to differ. It was not as a result of marketing, it was the result of thousands of students using this camera as a learning tool.

That happened because Pentax kept it in production after the rest of the K and M series was long gone. Ks were affordable, readily available used, and had no automatic mode, so students could not "cheat", hence their popularity. (By the late 80s most SLRs had electronically-timed shutters and at least one semi-auto model) In the early 90s we called it the Volkswagen Beetle of cameras, and that was an apt description -- both were simple, crude, and outdated even when new. (I love Beetles, but let's not pretend they are an ode to the car-maker's art.)

I'm a devoted Pentaxian, but I don't recommend the K1000 for anyone except collectors. They are overpriced because of nostalgia. The KM (from which the "decontented" K1000 was derived) and KX (my firstSLR!) are both more feature-rich cameras that sell for less. KX is probably one of the most underrated mechanicals on the market. But the problem with them (besides being out of the OP's budget; good ones are closer to US$85) is they are all-mechanical which means they are more likely to need a CLA, or to at least have less-than-perfect shutter timing. If the OP's budget was closer to 150 Euro, KX would be my pick, but not for this scenario.

And while we're on the subject of Pentaxes, I'd stay away from Spotmatics for the same (mechanical) reasons, plus it's easy to stumble on one with no meter or no mechanical mode. And while the OP wants a more manual experience, stop-down metering might be a bit *too* manual!

K2 is a nice choice with an electronic shutter, but again above OP's budget (and you need to find one from a dry climate, as prism deterioration seems to be a problem). Hence my recommendation of the Ricohs above -- similar feature set with a much, MUCH lower price. Not because they are bad cameras, but because so few people seem to know they are any good.

Aaron

 

[xkaes]

I agree the 5 is amazing (bot mine for $17 shipped) but I don't think it's what the OP is looking for. It's auto-focus, and while it does have a manual mode, setting all that with buttons and dials doesn't give the old-school tactile feel that I think most manual-camera-seekers are seeking.

Aaron

183bb was asking for "any thoughts or recommendations on cheap SLRs for beginners?" with manual control?

The MAXXUM 5 has every manual control that could be asked for -- in addition to automatic features. Switching between auto-focus and manual-focus is a simple press of a button by your left index finger. Plus, many more newer lenses than in the "manual-only" world. Sending "him" back to the 1970's is not only more expensive (MAXXUM 5 for $17 - above), it gets him stuck back there.

A VERY NICE MINOLTA SRT with a 50mm f1.7 manual-focusing lens for $75 versus a like new, MUCH lighter, MUCH smaller MINOLTA MAXXUM 5 with a 28-80mm MACRO Zoom for $20? Not much of a choice in my book.

 

[cliveh]

I

That happened because Pentax kept it in production after the rest of the K and M series was long gone. Ks were affordable, readily available used, and had no automatic mode, so students could not "cheat", hence their popularity. (By the late 80s most SLRs had electronically-timed shutters and at least one semi-auto model) In the early 90s we called it the Volkswagen Beetle of cameras, and that was an apt description -- both were simple, crude, and outdated even when new. (I love Beetles, but let's not pretend they are an ode to the car-maker's art.)

I'm a devoted Pentaxian, but I don't recommend the K1000 for anyone except collectors. They are overpriced because of nostalgia. The KM (from which the "decontented" K1000 was derived) and KX (my firstSLR!) are both more feature-rich cameras that sell for less. KX is probably one of the most underrated mechanicals on the market. But the problem with them (besides being out of the OP's budget; good ones are closer to US$85) is they are all-mechanical which means they are more likely to need a CLA, or to at least have less-than-perfect shutter timing. If the OP's budget was closer to 150 Euro, KX would be my pick, but not for this scenario.

And while we're on the subject of Pentaxes, I'd stay away from Spotmatics for the same (mechanical) reasons, plus it's easy to stumble on one with no meter or no mechanical mode. And while the OP wants a more manual experience, stop-down metering might be a bit *too* manual!

K2 is a nice choice with an electronic shutter, but again above OP's budget (and you need to find one from a dry climate, as prism deterioration seems to be a problem). Hence my recommendation of the Ricohs above -- similar feature set with a much, MUCH lower price. Not because they are bad cameras, but because so few people seem to know they are any good.

Aaron

I would suggest that if you have never taught photography you don't understand.

 

[xkaes]

OK. I just couldn't resist. I DON'T need another one, but GOODWILL had ANOTHER, like-new, Minolta Maxxum 5 -- this time with a Minolta 28-100mm zoom and a Minolta 75-300mm zoom. I was the HIGH bidder at $23. $7 for shipping.

Call me crazy, but EITHER lens is worth more than $23!!!!!!

 

[Autonerd]

I would suggest that if you have never taught photography you don't understand.

I would suggest that if you aren't familiar with the Pentax KM, KX, K2, MX and Spotmatic F, you won't understand why the K1000 is so highly overpriced and overrated.

BUT -- if paying more money for a camera with fewer features and (for the majority of the production runs) lower-quality innards, then yes, by all means, buy the K1000 over any of those other cameras.

Aaron

 

[Hassasin]

183bb was asking for "any thoughts or recommendations on cheap SLRs for beginners?" with manual control?

The MAXXUM 5 has every manual control that could be asked for -- in addition to automatic features. Switching between auto-focus and manual-focus is a simple press of a button by your left index finger. Plus, many more newer lenses than in the "manual-only" world. Sending "him" back to the 1970's is not only more expensive (MAXXUM 5 for $17 - above), it gets him stuck back there.

A VERY NICE MINOLTA SRT with a 50mm f1.7 manual-focusing lens for $75 versus a like new, MUCH lighter, MUCH smaller MINOLTA MAXXUM 5 with a 28-80mm MACRO Zoom for $20? Not much of a choice in my book.

Do any AF lenses have DOF markings? That is the first thing I would consider if manual camera was to be recommended.

Maxxum has manual mode, it does not work though as simply as a … manual camera.

 

[Hassasin]

I beg to differ. It was not as a result of marketing, it was the result of thousands of students using this camera as a learning tool. It became over priced because it was so good as a basic SLR. Built like a tank with all the basic functions and no bells and whistles. It does what it says on the tin.

There are countless cameras that are better than K1000 as a teaching tool. Both from Pentax and all other known brands. K1000 will do just fine for taking photographs of fine quality, but given competition, it is at least double the price, and short on some rather basic features.