When Ilford made colour film in the 50s and 60s, it was with the help of ICI who were a *massive* international chemical company at the time. When they later briefly marketed E6 and C41 film, it was with the aid of Sakura....who you may know better as Konica. They may have also offered rebranded Agfa E6 film. Whether as Ilford or Harman, the company, known as either Ilford or Harman, have never made colour film without the support of another, much bigger, company. And it's highly unlikely that anyone involved in the Sakura-aided venture is still there anyway. The ICI stuff was a process more akin to the pre-C22 Agfa colour films and is of no relevance to work on a C41 film.
Other than the fact that they make XP2 which has a little relevance to colour C41 film production....Harman have started from scratch and produced something in under 12 months that isn't good in all circumstances, but which has a certain charm. It is a functional colour film, which in itself is quite the achievement. The only way they can continue R&D on this film is to have it funded, and they've chosen to achieve this by selling the unperfected versions(s). Each box has a link to a survey you can take to offer opinions on what you like, and don't like about Phoenix.
Other than the fact that they make XP2 which has a little relevance to colour C41 film production
That can't be right. This would amount to GBP 50k revenue per employee per year. That's abysmal by any standard and they wouldn't have survived.
Their annual figures from 2022 show revenues of GBP 28.5m and a net operating profit after taxes of GBP 2.8m. The report is also explicit on staff, which was just shy of 200 (so @pentaxuser is correct above), constituting a total cost of around GBP7.5m. This seems quite consistent with average salaries in the UK, suggesting many of the staff are production personnel being paid a little less than average, and/or some of them may be working on a part-time basis.
In any case, it boils down to a much more sensible ca. GBP 140k revenue per employee per year, which seems to me quite normal for a manufacturing company this size, although you generally see somewhat higher turnovers (and profitability) at this complexity level.
Has anyone tried to shoot this film redscale?
https://www.instagram.com/p/C_QfXcfufwL/
And they are doing hinty things at Instagram again:
Code:https://www.instagram.com/p/C_QfXcfufwL/
To what I remember, Foma did produce some color films. Dunno if it was Orwo that produced it.
The film has been available for less than one year. I don’t know how much they made in the trial of course, but if few are buying it would take time to sell. A year is not out of the question. It makes sense to make 120 as well while concurrently developing version 2.0 of the product. The more people that try v1 the larger the cohort to convert to v2.Here's the problem. The film sucks.….. Ilford has now marketed the film for so long that the assumption that they were just selling off the trial run of an unfinished film product is no longer tenable.
You’re not a customer. (Neither am I.) No problem there. Some people like it and are willing to pay for it now, warts and all. No problem there either. The film is likely to improve over time, and maybe one day I’ll buy some.Phoenix is now being handled as a normal, ongoing film product, which is ridiculous, although there is nothing forcing anyone to buy it.
Looks like they will also offer it 120 format.
Certainly the right step.
Here's the problem. The film sucks. The fact that Ilford honestly warns you that it fails to perform by nearly every measure normally used to evaluate color negative film does not change the objective fact that it sucks. Ilford has now marketed the film for so long that the assumption that they were just selling off the trial run of an unfinished film product is no longer tenable. Phoenix is now being handled as a normal, ongoing film product, which is ridiculous, although there is nothing forcing anyone to buy it. Classify Phoenix under the category defined by PT Barnum: There's a sucker born every minute.
Here's the problem. The film sucks. The fact that Ilford honestly warns you that it fails to perform by nearly every measure normally used to evaluate color negative film does not change the objective fact that it sucks. Ilford has now marketed the film for so long that the assumption that they were just selling off the trial run of an unfinished film product is no longer tenable. Phoenix is now being handled as a normal, ongoing film product, which is ridiculous, although there is nothing forcing anyone to buy it. Classify Phoenix under the category defined by PT Barnum: There's a sucker born every minute.
Finally, the voice of sanity! You are 100% correct.
Oh boy, where do I even start with this?
Phoenix is what it is....a work in progress. It doesn't "suck" because it does exactly what it's claimed to do. Harman aren't claiming it's some funky, retro, product or that is a finalised long term offering. Jeez, it's been on the market for 9 months. that's hardly a "normal, ongoing film product". They're not claiming it's anything like a normal colour film either. It performs exactly as they claim it does. Dog food doesn't suck because you have a cat. 120 film doesn't suck because you shoot only 35mm.
We know they're working on the next iteration, which should hopefully be a tangible step closer to "normal" C41 colour film which is the stated goal. the fact that with Phoenix, they accidentally hit on something just about good enough to sell to those with a more experimental mind is a happy piece of luck.
There's no Lomography style hyping this as some deliberately retro or deliberately weird film. Harman are totally transparent about it being a step along a journey, and an imperfect one. But those of us who have actually used the stuff have found that in the right circumstances it is capable of results that can either be decent colour photographs or artistic experiments.
It's certainly not a film that everyone will enjoy or even find a use for. I have only bought and shot two rolls and I don't know that I'll buy more - though I did have fun with those two rolls and got nice photos from each...and some duds.
the Facebook and Instagram post does suggest that they're going to offer another size of Phoenix, and 120 is the most logical - though predictably people on social media are demanding obscure sheet sizes. I do hope that this coincides with a measurable and observable improvement in the film too. Though there are also people who love Phoenix so much that they're going to cry if it's replaced by "Phoenix V1.2".
Nice to know you think those of us who enjoyed using Phoneix are insane.
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