• Welcome to Photrio!
    Registration is fast and free. Join today to unlock search, see fewer ads, and access all forum features.
    Click here to sign up

First roll of Harman Phoenix photos up!

Just developed and scanned my first roll of phoenix. Yeah it sure is contrasty. Scanned on my plustek 8200i with the ilford xp2 negafix profile (all color film profiles would give me completely blown highlights). Rated the film at ei 125 and honestly this film could really do with a shorter than standard c41 dev time tbh. might get the contrast more under control.
 

Attachments

  • Image (2).jpg
    1.7 MB · Views: 179
  • Image (3).jpg
    1.8 MB · Views: 158
  • Image (4).jpg
    1.9 MB · Views: 154
  • Image (5).jpg
    1.7 MB · Views: 145
  • Image (11).jpg
    1.8 MB · Views: 159
  • Image (12).jpg
    1.5 MB · Views: 185
  • Image (28).jpg
    1.9 MB · Views: 172
  • Image (30).jpg
    1.3 MB · Views: 171
  • Image (33).jpg
    1.9 MB · Views: 149
  • Image (35).jpg
    1.7 MB · Views: 176
real_liiva said:
(all color film profiles would give me completely blown highlights
Click to expand...

Yeah, that makes sense.

I wondered about the pull development, but given how high the contrast is, I don't think it's going to help all that much. I'd recommend to scan this film as slides and then invert/color balance manually. I got quite decent results that way myself.

And when optical printing in the darkroom, just embrace the film for what it is/does and make the most out of it! Frames like your #28 illustrate that it does things that can be worthwhile.
 
real_liiva said:
... (all color film profiles would give me completely blown highlights) ... Rated the film at ei 125 ... shorter than standard c41 dev time ... might get the contrast more under control.
Click to expand...

Considering cross-processing, I would rate the film at box speed (200) and develop in ECN-2 with a 1 stop push for flatter results. No idea what it may do to the colors, but I'll try it if I get my hands on the film.

For reference, bleach-bypassed XP2 Super in various color processes.
 
Last edited:

I'm not sure if +1 pushed ecn with this film would be much flatter than normal c41. Maybe you could try rating it at 125 and developing as normal in ECN? I do have an unmixed bag of cinestill ecn developer sitting but i wouldn't want to start its unstoppable countdown towards death only for a single roll.
 
I did try exposing at 125 and reducing development a bit. Didn't make much of a difference.
Given how extreme the gamma is on this film, any attempt at subtle pulling will not really do much. You really have to think in extremes, and that makes it a non-starter. You'd have to expose at something like ISO12 or so and then develop for 45 seconds in C41 to get down to a normal gamma. Evidently, that's a non-starter, although it could be interesting.
 

Actually this made me think. Metropolis is almost bad on purpose i think. I shot Lomo purple once (2021 formula) and after unswapping the swapped color channels, i got images that were pretty much NC400/'92 tier quality wise. Even skin tones look somewhat ok. This tells me they had the capability back in 2021 even just didn't use it due to the lomo customer base being what it is. Excuse the poor color balance in some of these, i scanned them in SilverFast as negatives so i had to try balance them *with* the film's native purple effect applied.
 

Attachments

  • photo (2).jpg
    1.4 MB · Views: 113
  • photo (14).jpg
    1.1 MB · Views: 108
  • photo (20).jpg
    1.3 MB · Views: 120
  • photo (34).jpg
    1.3 MB · Views: 125
  • Untitled.jpg
    851.7 KB · Views: 127
I shot Lomochrome Metropolis 2021 formula once on a sunny day and I found it not such a wild stock as expected. It was grainy, but color balance was quite decent except the very low saturation. I only scan the roll but it was pretty straightfoward, no strange moves needed.
 

Yeah, just like with Phoenix, most of the "wildness" metropolis is known for comes from lab scanners not knowing how the hell to react to the higher gamma and nonstandard base color. But even when scanned manually it has pretty desaturated colors, especially greens just look off in my experience. I would say on par to like Wolfen NC500. It's contemporary lomo purple certainly has better color accuracy than metropolis once you unswap the channels. (NC400/color 92 tier colors)
 

I didn't do anything special at all scanning Metropolis 2021, what Vuescan showed me with automatic color negative settings was already ok. I didn't even calibrate the base. In PS I did some general color adjustment to counterbalance an inherent tendency towards green-cyan, and that's all. Film latitude was good and has average contrast, it didn't seem to me a high gamma. The photos I took were at noon on a summer sunny day, so there was some contrast present and it was well managed by Metropolis 2021.

Lomography Metropolis C-41 Color Negative Film

Some examples of LomoChrome Metropolis 2021 formulation test roll. Exposed to ISO 200 on a Nikon FM2n with a Samyang 14mm f/2.8 (also testing the lens). Shot at noon of a super sunny day, harsh contrast and colors as vivid as it gets. Scanned on a Nikon 8000ED and Vuescan with plain adjustement...
www.photrio.com

I have pending to try it in a overcast day. Could be interesting...

Definitely Orwo NC500 and Metropolis 2021 seems to be very closely related if not the same film stock.
 

Yeah in Silverfast i experienced a similar effect that it was fine practically right off the bat with the portra 800 negafix profile. It's just the lab scanners it throws off. Attached lab scan vs self scan. Its certainly not the same film as NC500. Metropolis is on a piss yellow base vs the somewhat-normal-but-more-brown-than-kodak orange base of NC500 (can't tell this once developed due to the fog both films come with but throw undeveloped snips into blix and you will see the true base colors) and also i think metropolis has a silver antihalation layer unlike NC500. But i would believe it if someone told me the photosensitive layers of both films are the same.
 

Attachments

  • 003407880016.jpg
    864.1 KB · Views: 76
  • Image.jpg
    1.9 MB · Views: 93
halfaman said:
Definitely Orwo NC500 and Metropolis 2021 seems to be very closely related if not the same film stock.
Click to expand...

Related, probably yes. Same emulsion, no.

I've show this a couple of times here...

(Orwo NC500 second from the right, Metropolis '21 far right)
 
A technical (not artistic) question: is it possible to simulate the appearance (color balance, tonal scale and grain) of Phoenix 200 with a "normal" color film like Kodak Gold and appropriate post-processing in e.g. Photoshop? I assume the answer is "no", because if it is possible, then the reverse would be true (i.e. one could produce a "normal" color positive from a Phoenix negative. But I thought I should check with the experts ... and is there a simple explanation/reason?
 
ChrisGalway said:
is it possible to simulate the appearance (color balance, tonal scale and grain) of Phoenix 200 with a "normal" color film like Kodak Gold and appropriate post-processing in e.g. Photoshop?
Click to expand...

To a large extent, yes. The only caveat is that some of the idiosyncrasies in spectral sensitivity are more difficult to simulate. But for the most part, it's a matter of a pretty hefty S-curve contrast adjustment and maybe add some artificial grain.

For instance, take this Vision3 frame:

If this were shot on Phoenix 200 and printed optically on RA4, it might come out looking something like this:


ChrisGalway said:
I assume the answer is "no", because if it is possible, then the reverse would be true (i.e. one could produce a "normal" color positive from a Phoenix negative.
Click to expand...

Phoenix looks fairly normal if you color balance it manually. In fact, the first images I got from Phoenix made me wonder what all the fuss was about. You can find them earlier on in the thread. Or take this example:

The left is a scan of a Phoenix 200 frame that I color balanced a bit sloppily, but it shows a fairly accurate rendering of that spot under late afternoon December illumination. The image on the right is a scan from an RA4 print from the same negative.

If you look at the examples @brbo posted in this thread, they also illustrate that Phoenix scans pretty neutral if you know what you're doing.
Most of the Phoenix shots you see online look funny because the high gamma makes the auto-adjustments in scanning software go haywire and you end up with all manner of weird stuff. You're looking as much at failure of software to make sense of a scan as at the film itself. Which begs all manner of philosophical questions along the lines of the sound of one hand clapping and whatnot. But still.
 
Last edited:
On somewhat of a tangent, while trying to source RA-4 Chemicals locally for someone enquiring recently here on Photrio, I came across Ilford's C41, ECN2 and E6 in 2.5 Litre kits.
Is this a totally new venture into the colour chemistry market for Ilford, or have I just been out of the loop (failing at research) for too long?

Either way, if Vanbar gets it back in stock, I'll be getting my hands on a C41 kit at the very least as it's the most economical one for me that I've seen and will also (and far more importantly) spare me the public humiliation of taking my Harman Phoenix "experiments" to a lab.



 
Molli said:
Is this a totally new venture into the colour chemistry market for Ilford, or have I just been out of the loop (failing at research) for too long?
Click to expand...

That must be the "other" Ilford, not the one producing BW films and Phoenix.
 

There are two "Ilford", Ilford Imaging and Ilford Photo. The latter belongs to Harman and it is behind all B&W products we love, apparently they can't brand anything else as "Ilford" (Phoenix is branded with "Harman"). Ilford Imaging is the remainings of the division dedicated to color products like Cibachrome/Ilfordchrome and inkjet paper that was not bought by Harman and continued a separate and tortuous way. As far as I know, Ilford Imaging produces nothing but they can rebrand as "Ilford" non BW products like the ones you show.
 
Ilford Imaging has two branches (two former companies), one of which is based in Australia. There is a certain probability that these chemicals are only available in that region.
On the other hand, Harman only hold rights to the Ilford brand for black and white films (so Phoenix is not branded as Ilford), but these rights are for a limited period. As far as I know, they will have to renew these rights to the brand soon, but it is not sure if they will succeed.
 
Molli, as far as I understand things, anything coming through CR Kennedy in Melbourne which is branded with the word Ilfocolor, then that is stuff from the business that CR Kennedy part owns and is not associated with Harman in the UK.

Everything that I've seen coming from Harman uses the spelling colour, as opposed to color.

Tricky situation for us down here, especially with CR Kennedy also being the distributors for Harman products in Australia.
 
I just got the scans back from my first roll. I shot it in my Exa, mostly with the 58/1.9 Primoplan, and rated it at ISO 125. It won't be my favourite film, but I'll use some more of it. I've uploaded fifteen of them at Flickr:

Harman Phoenix

Late in 2023, Harman (who own Ilford the film-makers) brought out a new colour film, Phoenix. I got a couple of rolls of it. There was a lot of chat about the new film in internet fora. The film is labelled as ISO 200, but in a YouTube video, I saw people from Harman saying the measured speed...
www.flickr.com
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register