First month with Mamiya C330

[Bikerider]

I wanted to share my first impressions and also was hoping to get some tips from C-system veterans.

After a false start on eBay followed by a lens return (Japanese sellers service is amazing), I finally assembled a C330S with a 80mm f/2.8 lens in a truly mint condition. This is my first camera without a meter (I am not counting my distant teenage years), so I've been practicing the sunny-16 shooting and, having put 4 rolls of film through it, I find it easier than I thought. Using a high-latitude ISO 400 film, mostly HP5+, also helps.

Random thoughts and questions:

• TLR framing is challenging, but I also get different results. Obviously it's easier to get low and I started embracing it. Besides, there's something magical about seeing the image on the focusing screen, and not behind a hole. Love it.
• Focusing is strange... Looks like I nail focus pretty much all the time without using a loupe, but I can't stop myself from pulling a loupe just to verify. The lack of trust in myself slows me down here.
  
• I was worried a bit about the optics, but the 80mm f/2.8 is absolutely modern specimen with the contrast and sharpness I've been getting from my other modern gear. It is very comparable to the 80mm f/3.5 Fujinon on my GF670.
• The absence of mirror slap, combined with the weight, allows for fairly slow shutter speeds. I've gone as low as 1/60s (something I wouldn't dare even on the GF670) with good results. BTW this was the main reason (plus cost) I've decided to go this route as opposed to getting a Hasselblad.
• Build quality is superb. I love my Fuji but that camera is so fragile that half of my brain is preoccupied by not breaking it, leaving just half for the actual photography. C330 is a tank. Yes, it kicks me in the rib cage regularly but I no longer worry about rangefinder getting knocked out of alignment or the bellows damage.
• It's quite an attention magnet. I get into about two small conversations with strangers, filled with compliments, per roll It's nearly impossible to do candid street photography with it, but much easier to get people to pose for you.

Annoyances & questions

• The viewfinder was quite dusty when I received (no dirt). Despite my best efforts, there are still quite a few annoying tiny hairs and dust specs that keep re-arranging but not disappearing. There are 5 (!) surfaces dust can stick to, and I wonder how do people keep them clean? (the mirror, the focusing screen on 2 sides, plus the parallax offset glass plate on two sides). My room is very clean, as evidenced by zero dust when drying films, but I just can't get it perfect... And my brain demands zero dust. I used an anti-static cloth, anti-static brush, the rocket air blower...
  
• I picked C330 instead of C220 because I felt that not having shutter auto-cocking is absurd. Well... I now think otherwise. Because C330 keeps cocking it when I don't need: when loading film, and when finishing the roll. Remembering to release shutter is surprisingly annoying. I was looking for hacks here, and looks like some people simply removed the auto-cocking arm from their cameras.
  
• The pin-shaped strap lugs are retarded. The same applies to Mamiya 645 and I honestly don't get why someone thought it would be a great idea to allow cameras to flip freely. These lugs are less secure and make everything less stable, wtf...

I do not know if I'll be using other lenses on it, the 80mm is quite perfect for now. I cried a bit when I held (much lighter) Rolleiflex in my hands, but the quality of optics, and ease of servicing makes me believe I've made the right call here. Looks like it's going to be "will never sell" kind of camera for me.

 

[Bikerider]

If you want to expand your lens range, apart from the wide angles the 105 is an absolute gem. As far as I am aware the latest version was the only TLR lens with a diaphragm the same as the taking lens. Apart from that it so damn sharp as well and possibly better than the latest 80mm. As for wide angle lenses go the 55mm, equal approx. to a 35mm on a 35mm camera is a good one as well so long as you get a very late one. I have known (experience with one from the mid 1970's) that the 55mm can be somewhat indifferent in sharpness in the corners even when stopped down.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I like the C330 with a prism much better, partially because I cannot stand the left-right reversal. My recommendations:

1. Lenses - 55mm [65mm is too close to the 80mm, 80mm and 250mm.
2. Buy a good strong carbon fiber tripod and the Paraminder if you want to get close ups of flowers
3. Buy more film

 

[Neil Grant]

.... the pin shaped strap lugs on the 330s are a quick-release feature. I find it useful to get the strap out-of-the-way with minimal fuss when the camera is on a tripod. There are bits sticking out all over the place on a C-series. A handle grip is useful and also a QR plate for a tripod. Film loading is very slow compared to an RB or even the M 645. Composing for square format is very different from what works successfully in rectangular formats.

 

[flavio81]

Film loading is very slow compared to an RB

I disagree, unless you're talking about just swapping a film back on the RB.

I owned the RB67 and the C330 and C220 together for a long time and I found loading/unloading the C330/220 no slower than replacing the film instide a RB67 film holder. Perhaps even quicker.

 

[flavio81]

I like the C330 with a prism much better, partially because I cannot stand the left-right reversal. My recommendations:

1. Lenses - 55mm [65mm is too close to the 80mm, 80mm and 250mm.

I sold the 55mm because I found the 65mm's extra f-stop to be helpful when focusing.

I'd recommend the 135mm, because it has exceptional rendering and it's lighter than the 180. The 180 lenses are a bit hard to work with, unless you use a tripod.

 

[Luckless]

I make very frequent use [abuse?] of the lens-changing dial on my C330f as a safety - If the film cover is up, then I don't need to worry about if the shutter is accidentally tripped. I'll even manually trip the shutter a few times with it up before resetting and actually taking the photo in cold weather to be sure the shutter hasn't frozen up on me. It is a very lovely peace of mind, and I wish more cameras included a firm safety/shutter lock of some kind.

I make a habit of double checking the shutter lever before taking a photo, and that I've actually opened the internal film-cover/dark-flap. [Calling it a dark slid seems wrong, given that it flips on a hinge and doesn't slide... But, same deal effectively.]

 

[Fujicaman1957]

I make very frequent use [abuse?] of the lens-changing dial on my C330f as a safety - If the film cover is up, then I don't need to worry about if the shutter is accidentally tripped. I'll even manually trip the shutter a few times with it up before resetting and actually taking the photo in cold weather to be sure the shutter hasn't frozen up on me. It is a very lovely peace of mind, and I wish more cameras included a firm safety/shutter lock of some kind.

I make a habit of double checking the shutter lever before taking a photo, and that I've actually opened the internal film-cover/dark-flap. [Calling it a dark slid seems wrong, given that it flips on a hinge and doesn't slide... But, same deal effectively.]

Dark flap?

 

[Bormental]

.... the pin shaped strap lugs on the 330s are a quick-release feature. I find it useful to get the strap out-of-the-way with minimal fuss when the camera is on a tripod. There are bits sticking out all over the place on a C-series. A handle grip is useful and also a QR plate for a tripod. Film loading is very slow compared to an RB or even the M 645.

Quick release kind of makes sense, but this feature belongs to a strap itself IMO. I am surprised that you found film loading to be slow. There are only two other cameras I can compare it to, and TBH I found M645 Pro to be way fiddlier and slower. The GF670 rangefinder is maybe a bit faster but only because the camera itself is smaller and easier to hold while loading.

If you want to expand your lens range, apart from the wide angles the 105 is an absolute gem.

The camera originally had 105mm on. It had a sticky shutter which was easily fixable with a CLA. I put a roll of film through it and found image quality to be identical to the 80mm but I much prefer the slightly wider FOV. I just bought a 55mm from another photrio member, and if I ever add the 3rd lens it will probably be 135mm.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Very sharp pictures. Almost "digital". Tmax 100 film? How did you scan?

 

[Bormental]

Very sharp pictures. Almost "digital". Tmax 100 film? How did you scan?

Thank you, Alan. They're shot at f/11 and f/8 using HP5+ at box speed and digitized into a 36MP (6000x6000px) image using a macro lens and a digital camera, so they copy I shared here is down-sampled by a fair amount. Repelnished Xtol plays a part too, it "tightens" the HP5+ grain.

Here's 100% zoom crop:


[edit] Interesting... photrio software doesn't really allow you to share photos without monkeying with them. It insists on upsampling/downsampling an image no matter how I attach it.

 

[Luckless]

Dark flap?

I can't tell if you're in support of calling it a dark flap, or if you're unfamiliar with the camera and wondering what I'm talking about.


For anyone new to the C-Series TLR, they have a flap inside the camera that can be closed by turning a knob on the side that secures the camera against light when you swap the lenses.

The design works great in my view, to the point that I've explored designing a similar flap-based system for 4x5 film holders. Really prefer it to having to deal with a slide you pull out and then have to find somewhere safe to stow.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I can't tell if you're in support of calling it a dark flap, or if you're unfamiliar with the camera and wondering what I'm talking about.


For anyone new to the C-Series TLR, they have a flap inside the camera that can be closed by turning a knob on the side that secures the camera against light when you swap the lenses.

The design works great in my view, to the point that I've explored designing a similar flap-based system for 4x5 film holders. Really prefer it to having to deal with a slide you pull out and then have to find somewhere safe to stow.

Dark Flap is good enough to describe it. It cannot be a dark slide.

 

[Neil Grant]

I disagree, unless you're talking about just swapping a film back on the RB.

I owned the RB67 and the C330 and C220 together for a long time and I found loading/unloading the C330/220 no slower than replacing the film instide a RB67 film holder. Perhaps even quicker.

...it's slower for me to load a C 330 because it lacks a removable insert. It's much quicker to swap the spools around because you've got the space to do it.

 

[Fujicaman1957]

I can't tell if you're in support of calling it a dark flap, or if you're unfamiliar with the camera and wondering what I'm talking about.


For anyone new to the C-Series TLR, they have a flap inside the camera that can be closed by turning a knob on the side that secures the camera against light when you swap the lenses.

The design works great in my view, to the point that I've explored designing a similar flap-based system for 4x5 film holders. Really prefer it to having to deal with a slide you pull out and then have to find somewhere safe to stow.

I'd just never heard it called that!

 

[Neil Grant]

I'd just never heard it called that!

...it's sometimes called 'the baffle plate' or 'light-baffle'. It's flat and it's presence dictates that the wide-angle lenses must be retrofocus in design to 'clear' it and also the non-moving reflex mirror. Presumably Mamiya could have designed wide-angle lenses with rear elements that got somewhat closer to the mirror as long as lens interchange was carried out with the bellows party extended.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

...it's sometimes called 'the baffle plate' or 'light-baffle'. It's flat and it's presence dictates that the wide-angle lenses must be retrofocus in design to 'clear' it and also the non-moving reflex mirror. Presumably Mamiya could have designed wide-angle lenses with rear elements that got somewhat closer to the mirror as long as lens interchange was carried out with the bellows party extended.

I never thought of that as a lens design factor but you're totally right, it actually makes the lens design more restrictive than a regular SLR, since the C330 also has to have the front element be small enough to fit two in the space of the lensboard. I had always wondered why the designs were such extreme retrofocus and I'm glad to finally have an answer!

 

[Bormental]

Quick update:

I have added the Sekor 55mm f/4.5 lens, which I already shot two rolls of film with. It's sharp at all apertures and I have zero complaints about the image quality. Some say this lens likes to flare. It happened once, and what matters is that the rest of the image hasn't suffered a dramatic contrast loss. Overall, the camera continues to be a delight to use. And it's is by far the easiest to take photos of strangers with. Many do not realize that a photo taking is taking place, others get excited. Overall the reaction is far more positive compared to a big SLR or even a 35mm rangefinder. I even started to use the "sports finder"! It works really well with the 80mm lens.

My only complaint is that dust and dirt keeps piling up in the viewfinder chamber, I guess it's common for all TLRs when used on the street. I also got too cocky with the "sunny 16" lately and underexposed a lot of shots on my last two rolls...

I am closing my "review". The conclusion is that for someone like me, coming from primarily Canon EOS background with a nice collection of "L-glass", there's nothing obsolete about the Mamiya TLR system. The glass is superb, the lack of a meter is not very limiting*, the shooting experience is refreshing and the build quality is out of this world.

* I did order a Gossen light meter though.

HP5+

Bergger Pancro 400

 

[Neil Grant]

a good sample of the 55mm lens performs well, aside from it's tendency to pronounced 'pentagons' if direct sun strikes the front element. No such problem here - though of course like any lens, it's flaring all the time. That is light from bright areas appears to spill into dark ones. In practice shadow contrast become slightly veiled. It's something we become accustomed to until we compare with a modern low-flare MC lens.
This is my 55mm at f/16, TMAX400, tripod and paramender.

 

[Helge]

What is it with the sudden popularity of Mamiya TLRs?
It seems awareness and appreciation of them has more or less exploded during the last six months or so.

Sure, they are good for all the reasons mentioned.
But they still also have the same drawbacks they always had. Size, weight, potential for less than optimal lens allignment, etc.

 

[dasBlute]

great images; a good eye, a good camera, knowledge of the craft

 

[Bormental]

What is it with the sudden popularity of Mamiya TLRs? It seems awareness and appreciation of them has more or less exploded during the last six months or so.

Sure, they are good for all the reasons mentioned. But they still also have the same drawbacks they always had. Size, weight, potential for less than optimal lens alignment, etc.

For me, it was the combination of cost, age, flexibility and low risk. After a few weeks of reading about TLRs online, Mamiya felt the most approachable. Finding a newer, minty C330 is easier, the cost is reasonable and the ability to change lenses is intriguing. In the end, it felt like a low-risk purchase. My C330s looks and feels brand new. I may have felt differently about acquiring an old Rolleiflex if I had a friend who's familiar with them.

@dasBlute, thank you.

 

[Luckless]

flexibility and low risk.

Those are rather nice points and part of why I've been collecting Mamiya C series.

I have a Rolleicord that is in fair shape, but if the shutter dies on it I'll be left with either a parts camera of rather limited use and buying another working camera, or have to track down a specifically damaged camera to salvage parts off of and face a lot of careful tinkering.

If the shutter dies on my C330... Well, I just swap the lens in 30 seconds and have a perfectly usable camera.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I taught myself photography on that very camera.

 

[bluechromis]

One advantage of the the Mamiya C series cameras is that they have a novel system of holding the film so that it stays very flat. In published tests of resolution of various lenses there often are concerns raised about the film flatness of a number of cameras including some prestigious ones. No matter how good the resolution of the lens if the film is not flat the IQ will be degraded.. The versatility of the C system is amazing.with many of the advantages of both TLR's and SLR's I have the prism, finder, the WLF and the chimney finder and use them for different purposes. For shooting fast paced action in street photography or events I can use the prism finder. I use this with the side grip and it makes all the difference. With the side grip my C330 f is nimble and with the auto-cocking shutter I can shoot fast. If you dislike WL finders with the image reversal you will like the prism. I use the WLF with the wide 55 mm lens and will stop it down and do zone focus for street photography. I look down at the finder only to frame the image, not focus, and fire away. For more slow paced scenes like landscape and still life I use the chimney finder. The 6X magnification allows accurate focus and avoids the problem of sun glare on WLF. I think the 80 mm and the DS 105 mm should be on the short list of best bokeh medium format lenses. Cameras with interchangeable film backs have flexibility. This can be approximated in C system by having multiple bodies with different kinds of film. Because they don't have lenses, additional bodies can be added at little cost which is not true with Rolleiflex..It is a bit more tricky to use polarizing and grad filters with TLR's but it can be done. On the plus side when using strong filters one does not have view through a dark filter which on SLR's may necessitate repeatedly taking the filter on and off. With all these advantages with C system plus it being affordable it has to be one of the best bang for the buck investments out there.