First month with Mamiya C330

[Bormental]

I wanted to share my first impressions and also was hoping to get some tips from C-system veterans.

After a false start on eBay followed by a lens return (Japanese sellers service is amazing), I finally assembled a C330S with a 80mm f/2.8 lens in a truly mint condition. This is my first camera without a meter (I am not counting my distant teenage years), so I've been practicing the sunny-16 shooting and, having put 4 rolls of film through it, I find it easier than I thought. Using a high-latitude ISO 400 film, mostly HP5+, also helps.

Random thoughts and questions:

• TLR framing is challenging, but I also get different results. Obviously it's easier to get low and I started embracing it. Besides, there's something magical about seeing the image on the focusing screen, and not behind a hole. Love it.
• Focusing is strange... Looks like I nail focus pretty much all the time without using a loupe, but I can't stop myself from pulling a loupe just to verify. The lack of trust in myself slows me down here.
  
• I was worried a bit about the optics, but the 80mm f/2.8 is absolutely modern specimen with the contrast and sharpness I've been getting from my other modern gear. It is very comparable to the 80mm f/3.5 Fujinon on my GF670.
• The absence of mirror slap, combined with the weight, allows for fairly slow shutter speeds. I've gone as low as 1/60s (something I wouldn't dare even on the GF670) with good results. BTW this was the main reason (plus cost) I've decided to go this route as opposed to getting a Hasselblad.
• Build quality is superb. I love my Fuji but that camera is so fragile that half of my brain is preoccupied by not breaking it, leaving just half for the actual photography. C330 is a tank. Yes, it kicks me in the rib cage regularly but I no longer worry about rangefinder getting knocked out of alignment or the bellows damage.
• It's quite an attention magnet. I get into about two small conversations with strangers, filled with compliments, per roll It's nearly impossible to do candid street photography with it, but much easier to get people to pose for you.

Annoyances & questions

• The viewfinder was quite dusty when I received (no dirt). Despite my best efforts, there are still quite a few annoying tiny hairs and dust specs that keep re-arranging but not disappearing. There are 5 (!) surfaces dust can stick to, and I wonder how do people keep them clean? (the mirror, the focusing screen on 2 sides, plus the parallax offset glass plate on two sides). My room is very clean, as evidenced by zero dust when drying films, but I just can't get it perfect... And my brain demands zero dust. I used an anti-static cloth, anti-static brush, the rocket air blower...
  
• I picked C330 instead of C220 because I felt that not having shutter auto-cocking is absurd. Well... I now think otherwise. Because C330 keeps cocking it when I don't need: when loading film, and when finishing the roll. Remembering to release shutter is surprisingly annoying. I was looking for hacks here, and looks like some people simply removed the auto-cocking arm from their cameras.
  
• The pin-shaped strap lugs are retarded. The same applies to Mamiya 645 and I honestly don't get why someone thought it would be a great idea to allow cameras to flip freely. These lugs are less secure and make everything less stable, wtf...

I do not know if I'll be using other lenses on it, the 80mm is quite perfect for now. I cried a bit when I held (much lighter) Rolleiflex in my hands, but the quality of optics, and ease of servicing makes me believe I've made the right call here. Looks like it's going to be "will never sell" kind of camera for me.

 

[Bormental]

A couple of shots from the first roll:

When one of the guys saw me with a TLR, he pulled out a phone and started (what I think) filming me too

 

[MattKing]

I picked C330 instead of C220 because I felt that not having shutter auto-cocking is absurd. Well... I now think otherwise. Because C330 keeps cocking it when I don't need: when loading film, and when finishing the roll. Remembering to release shutter is surprisingly annoying. I was looking for hacks here, and looks like some people simply removed the auto-cocking arm from their cameras.

I have the original C330, not the C330s.
On my camera I don't have to release the shutter until the film has been advanced to "1" on the counter, nor do I have to release the shutter after the 12th frame as I advance to the end of the roll.
And my strap lugs don't flip.
PS your shots look great.

 

[Bormental]

On my camera I don't have to release the shutter until the film has been advanced to "1" on the counter, nor do I have to release the shutter after the 12th frame as I advance to the end of the roll.

Hm... next time I'll watch closely how this happens. Thanks!

 

[Michel Hardy-Vallée]

I've been rocking a C330 since the early 2000, and I bought it because at that time I couldn't afford a Hasselblad. Today, I could afford a Blad at yesterday's prices, but not at today's ones, so what can you do?

Still, I have always loved the TLR handling, and while the Rolleiflex/Yashica/etc style of fixed-lens TLR is perfectly sized, I really like having a MF system, despite the increased weight. Again, it's not the best system for quickly changing lenses in the field (too many little knobs to turn and flip to change lenses; bits protruding that get caught everywhere) but if you're reasonably calm, or can afford to pick one lens per session and just shoot, it pays off.

I've been posting a couple of photos done with my C330 in the Standard Gallery lately, and it's never let me down. Well, it did once, because the film transport was broken in my old body, and I had to change it, but at least it didn't cost me an arm and a leg to get a new one!

And when you couple that to a 6x6 slide projector, you start truly appreciating these lenses.

 

[jvo]

i chose the 330 for the auto-cocking feature and never had a problem or misfire... mine works the same as matt king indicates. i sometimes lock the shutter release but mostly don't.

i wouldn't disable the auto-cocking function simply because you would still be carrying the weight of mechanism without the benefit of auto-cocking. if it's a problem, sell the 330 and get a 220 - it a bit smaller, marginally less-clunky, and lighter. if needed, you might be able to rotate the lens in the lensboard to disengage the auto-cocking lever and maintain the shutter release function.

although i have multiple lenses, i found i used 80mm for 99 out of 100 pictures. then was able to pick up a rolleiflex and it's pretty much all i use.

i can't see myself getting rid of the mamiya and "take it for a spin" every coupla months! yes it is a tank!

enjoy.

 

[Bormental]

i chose the 330 for the auto-cocking feature and never had a problem or misfire... mine works the same as matt king indicates. i sometimes lock the shutter release but mostly don't.

I just finished a roll, and as I was turning the crank past frame 12, the cocking arm kept going up/down and yes, it cocked the shutter. I'm playing with mine right now, and the cocking arm always moves when I rotate the crank...

How does it work in your case, it stops going up/down after the 12th frame? Either mine is defective, or it's a feature that has been removed from c330s model. CC @MattKing

 

[MattKing]

The actual cocking mechanism is part of the shutter (on the lens), not the camera body. Once the shutter is cocked, that mechanism doesn't move further.
I expect you are referring to the shutter cocking lever - the part on the body that pushes down on the shutter cocking mechanism. Once the shutter is cocked that lever merely travels freely as you rotate the crank - it isn't doing anything except moving in synch with the winding mechanism.

 

[Bormental]

The actual cocking mechanism is part of the shutter (on the lens), not the camera body. Once the shutter is cocked, that mechanism doesn't move further.
I expect you are referring to the shutter cocking lever - the part on the body that pushes down on the shutter cocking mechanism. Once the shutter is cocked that lever merely travels freely as you rotate the crank - it isn't doing anything except moving in synch with the winding mechanism.

Yep, the cocking lever (part of the body) never stops, it keeps going up/down after the last frame if I keep turning the crank, but it leaves the shutter in the cocked state. I prefer to keep my shutters discharged, so I have to remember to trigger lens shutter on the lens after I pull the film out of the camera.

 

[ic-racer]

I love TLRs but in all my years have never used on of those. So, thank you for the detailed information.

 

[ic-racer]

I'm using my 6008i SLR with a 90 degree prism a lot these days and noticed your picture of the workmen and it hit me as to why it looks "TLR" to me. It looks as if you had the camera waist level, is that true?

 

[Bormental]

Yes, maybe 4 feet off the ground.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Those are really wonderful pictures! I recommend getting a 180 Super when you see one in your price range. In my hands, it's the star lens of the system and every bit the equal to or better than the 80. Though its handling can be a bit unwieldy. The other accessory I like is the latest type of finder, which can be opened and closed with one hand, and grabbed from the side to pull up. You can identify it because the leaves on the edges are hinged. I just was recently lucky enough to find a microprism screen on eBay from this seller. The seller is wrong about the model of it, it isn't the split rangefinder, but a microprism dot. it looks like there are still a few available. It makes focusing easier for me at least, and it's very rare to find upgrade screens for the C330. But now I just re-read your post and say you have a C330S, not a C330F, and I don't think this screen is compatible. Anyways, I can echo others who have said that their C330 does not require firing the shutter to advance the film when it shouldn't be. If yours is doing that (during loading, at the end of the roll) you might want to get it checked out.

 

[MattKing]

Yep, the cocking lever (part of the body) never stops, it keeps going up/down after the last frame if I keep turning the crank, but it leaves the shutter in the cocked state. I prefer to keep my shutters discharged, so I have to remember to trigger lens shutter on the lens after I pull the film out of the camera.

I wouldn't bother unless you are storing the camera long term.
The secret is, of course, to use the shutters, not leave them unused for long periods of time.
The cameras' manuals don't advise on the issue.
The shutter needs to be cocked before the lens is installed.
I've been using my C330 for nearly 45 years and have never had any problem with the shutters on any of the lenses, nor have I ever been advised to store the lenses un-cocked.

 

[Bormental]

Those are really wonderful pictures! I recommend getting a 180 Super when you see one in your price range... Anyways, I can echo others who have said that their C330 does not require firing the shutter to advance the film when it shouldn't be. If yours is doing that (during loading, at the end of the roll) you might want to get it checked out.

Thank you! To be honest, I suck as focal lengths longer than normal. I can do head & shoulders portrait with them, and that's about it. I kept buying them for my Canon DSLR, I have one for my Fuji mirrorless, and they always gather dust. I am 24/35/50 type of guy (again, in 35mm equivalents). I think my next lens for the C330 will be the 55mm.

Also, it seems (and I hope!) there's misunderstanding going on. Cocking works as intended on my camera, but I am unhappy that it leaves the shutter in cocked state after I finish the roll (or right after I load a fresh roll).

 

[Grim Tuesday]

There's a photographer named Paul Greeves who I've seen use the 180 on the Mamiya to great effect for street photography that I really admire. Here's the section of his Flickr page with just the photos from that camera & lens combo: https://www.flickr.com/search/?user_id=76353416@N08&view_all=1&text=mamiya 180


Oooh, and I understand your problem now! I don't believe leaving lenses cocked on the scale that I do (like between rolls or between shots) will ever have any negative effect. Maybe leaving it cocked for the next decade, straight, in storage and you'd see something go wrong. Plus, remember that Hasselblad lenses always have to be cocked to even be taken off the camera, so there can't be much that goes wrong with them in that state for storage, since that is literally the only way to store them, and I don't think the German shutter makers had any special technology that Seiko did not. But if you are still worried about it, you can trip the shutter on the left side of the lens (looking down) to defeat the multi-exposure-prevention mechanism. Or, as you noticed, you can get a C220 which will give you a lighter weight carry option and you can feel good about your shutters!

 

[MattKing]

Also, it seems (and I hope!) there's misunderstanding going on. Cocking works as intended on my camera, but I am unhappy that it leaves the shutter in cocked state after I finish the roll (or right after I load a fresh roll).

You can always release the shutter by hand using the actual shutter release lever - the one on the lens.
That would work reasonably easily at roll end.
After loading a fresh roll? That would end up with you either wasting a frame or having to do some fairly complex workarounds involving manual cocking and maybe either using the multiple exposure function or taking the lens pair off the camera, manually re-cocking and then re-installing the lens pair.
I'm not sure why you would want to leave the camera loaded but the shutter un-cocked.

 

[Dali]

The shutter needs to be cocked before the lens is installed..

Where did you see that? I always release manually the shutter after the frame #12 or after I change of lens. It means that I always install a lens with an uncocked shutter. Never had any issue in 35 years as the camera shall automatically cock it when advancing the film.

 

[grahamp]

If you normally advance the film after a shot, and then change the lens, you need to remember to ensure the shutter is cocked. Otherwise the shutter state and the body state are not in sync. That's why it pays to cock the shutter when mounting the lens pair. It has no effect if the film has not been advanced, as the next advance of the film goes though the cocking motion. If the film has been advanced, the lens needs to be in sync with the body, or the camera will not fire. It may also trip the multi-exposure lock. You can work around that, but it alters the flow of the moment.

This is a reasonable sequence for professional use where the camera is likely to be in continuous use across several lens changes. Shutters can always be left uncocked for storage, but be aware of the implications for mid-roll lens changes with uncocked shutters.

On the subject of 'sharpness', the lenses (if not messed up) compare well with comparable vintage optics. The TLR optics tend to have a more plastic feel than, say, my Mamiya 6. The lenses on the rangefinder give an image with much more edge contrast. Sometimes it is like having all the edges gone over with a pencil. Very different character. But the TLR is mostly using optics based on '60s and '70s designs and coatings, while the M6 is a 1980s design. The TLR was also aimed at the bread and butter jobs of portraits and weddings. Less edge acutance was a good thing in that work

 

[Bormental]

The TLR optics tend to have a more plastic feel than, say, my Mamiya 6. The lenses on the rangefinder give an image with much more edge contrast. Sometimes it is like having all the edges gone over with a pencil. Very different character. But the TLR is mostly using optics based on '60s and '70s designs and coatings, while the M6 is a 1980s design. The TLR was also aimed at the bread and butter jobs of portraits and weddings. Less edge acutance was a good thing in that work

Time for a confession! I have never been able to tell the difference between the "rendering" of different lenses. I can spot differences in sharpness, I can see color casts, the bokeh character, vignetting and that's about it. Even the contrast is something I can't attribute to a lens vs the light/developing/post-processing. When people start discussing differences between Zeiss & Leica, the 3D pop, "clinical" vs "retro" look, focus fallback & transitions, microcontrast, etc it feels like looking at one of those "hidden 3D pictures" but never seeing it. Maybe I've been blessed with good glass my whole life, I dunno.

 

[Alan Gales]

I own the C220f. The f version has the bright focussing screen like your C330s. I like the lighter weight of the C220f and I'm used to cocking lens shutters with large format lenses.

I agree with Grim Tuesday about adding the 180mm Super. I've got one and it's a great lens!

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Time for a confession! I have never been able to tell the difference between the "rendering" of different lenses. I can spot differences in sharpness, I can see color casts, the bokeh character, vignetting and that's about it. Even the contrast is something I can't attribute to a lens vs the light/developing/post-processing. When people start discussing differences between Zeiss & Leica, the 3D pop, "clinical" vs "retro" look, focus fallback & transitions, microcontrast, etc it feels like looking at one of those "hidden 3D pictures" but never seeing it. Maybe I've been blessed with good glass my whole life, I dunno.

I must admit, I sometimes feel that way as well, but when put side-to-side as this test does it is clear that some lenses produce more contrast than others: https://web.hevanet.com/cperez/test/fourcameras.html The upside of more contrast being a snappy image, the downside being, at least in these tests that the softer detail gets washed into the contrast. Theoretically, you could always pull it out with printing and scanning, though. From the images you posted, you have an obviously excellent sample of the Mamiya 80mm lens. And plus, in my experience, focus being accurately calibrated is an order of magnitude more important than the lens.

 

[jvo]

I just finished a roll, and as I was turning the crank past frame 12, the cocking arm kept going up/down and yes, it cocked the shutter. I'm playing with mine right now, and the cocking arm always moves when I rotate the crank...

How does it work in your case, it stops going up/down after the 12th frame? Either mine is defective, or it's a feature that has been removed from c330s model. CC @MattKing

yes, my auto-cocking arm goes up and down every time i turn the crank.... for advancing to next frame - and loading and removing film.

 

[MattKing]

The shutter needs to be cocked before the lens is installed.

Where did you see that? I always release manually the shutter after the frame #12 or after I change of lens. It means that I always install a lens with an uncocked shutter. Never had any issue in 35 years as the camera shall automatically cock it when advancing the film.

To be mote complete and accurate, the lever on the body that actuates the shutter cocking lever on the shutter/lens needs to be positioned above the shutter cocking lever on the shutter/lens when you install the lens. The easiest and most straightforward way of ensuring that is to make sure you have the shutter cocked when you install the lens, although it is possible to do it by first making sure that the lever on the body is at the top of its travel before putting on the lens, and then either manually cocking the shutter or winding the film winding mechanism.

 

[MattKing]

I can spot differences in sharpness

Then you can spot differences in rendering, because apparent sharpness is mostly edge contrast.