Film gives off light when put into the stop bath?

Ian Leake · Dec 21, 2017

This is a bit bizarre. I was developing some sheet film this morning in trays. When I put each sheet of film into the stop bath, it briefly gave off light. Yes, you read that right – each sheet of film glowed briefly as I put it in the stop.

I don't think it was a chemical reaction, because after I was finished I used a pipette to squirt a little bit of used developer into the stop bath, and no light was produced.

Has anyone seen anything like this before? Could be static? Do you have a better idea?

For what it's worth: the stop was dilute acetic acid, the developer was John Wimberley's WD2H+, and the film was FP4+.

[Update] I repeated the test with a water stop bath and no other changes. Everything worked as would be expected.

Eric Rose · Dec 21, 2017

A little to much Christmas Cheer consumed?? Maybe?? Just joking. Sounds pretty weird though. I will have to pay more attention when I put my film into the stop however generally speaking I only use a water stop.

ic-racer · Dec 21, 2017

"static electricity' could fog the film so you might want to try to eliminate it. The most common time I see the little sparks is when removing the tape from 120 film. So, I usually cut it instead.

Check your negatives closely, anything like these visible? They may be very faint

Tom Kershaw · Dec 21, 2017

I use a Jobo so I'm not able to observe any strange light occurrences during processing, however I have sometimes seen what looks like a static charge when peeling off 120 film from the paper backing.

Tom

Ian Leake · Dec 21, 2017

Eric Rose said:
A little to much Christmas Cheer consumed?? Maybe?? Just joking. Sounds pretty weird though. I will have to pay more attention when I put my film into the stop however generally speaking I only use a water stop.

It was definitely weird, and real not imagined :-0. I was doing a BTZS film test so each sheet went into the stop at a different time. It happened with every sheet, and was bright enough to light up the tray with a soft luminescence. I’ve never seen or read anything like it before. Maybe my darkroom is haunted!

RalphLambrecht · Dec 21, 2017

Ian Leake said:
This is a bit bizarre. I was developing some sheet film this morning in trays. When I put each sheet of film into the stop bath, it briefly gave off light. Yes, you read that right – each sheet of film glowed briefly as I put it in the stop.

I don't think it was a chemical reaction, because after I was finished I used a pipette to squirt a little bit of used developer into the stop bath, and no light was produced.

Has anyone seen anything like this before? Could be static? Do you have a better idea?

For what it's worth: the stop was dilute acetic acid, the developer was John Wimberley's WD2H+, and the film was FP4+.

[Update] I repeated the test with a water stop bath and no other changes. Everything worked as would be expected.

You just discovered your very own photographic effect:the Leaky Effect!

macfred · Dec 21, 2017

I guess he just saw the Star of Bethlehem ...

Eric Rose · Dec 21, 2017

Now if you had shot the images using a Leica lens I could understand you getting the "glow"

Eric Rose · Dec 21, 2017

On a more serious note, do you see any difference in the negatives dumped into the stop bath vs water bath stop? I wonder if your nuclear infused stop bath might reduce the contrast somewhat? Given your usual subject matter I can understand your film getting a little excited.

DWThomas · Dec 21, 2017

Random thought: Any phosphate compounds in the developer? ("phosphorescence") Does sound bizarre.

Jarin Blaschke · Dec 21, 2017

Ha. I see the same thing, often. I use WD2D+, 8x10 FP4 and a citric acid stop. It’s apparent in the white trays more so than the film itself. I process single sheets emulsion up. I’ve seen it in my hot summer bathroom darkroom and presently in a slightly chilly darkroom. I live in Los Angeles where it’s usually pretty dry.

I’m still relatively new to sheet film, but so far the negatives seem normal, except for small blooming around fine highlight areas, like bright sunlit leaves against shadow . This is so far a mystery. I’ve assumed it was optics and am about to check my filters. My lens is a very clean apo-sironar-s that I paid good money for, and hope that isn’t the culprit.

How do your highlights look?

Maybe we should ask mr. Wimberley about it?

Jarin

Nodda Duma · Dec 21, 2017

Chemical reaction-induced phosphorescence. Here's a solution..from 1922!

https://books.google.com/books?id=sEZRAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA278&lpg=PA278&dq=phosphorescence+stop+bath&source=bl&ots=r_txE0eaHW&sig=tB8XGXZj5td8cRTCXtOp-aZ3ZEY&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj_oYHiu5vYAhUn3IMKHay2ARoQ6AEIMDAB#v=onepage&q=phosphorescence stop bath&f=true

Ian Leake · Dec 21, 2017

Nodda Duma said:
Chemical reaction-induced phosphorescence. Here's a solution..from 1922!

OK, I'm really impressed! This is must have been what was happening. The negatives stopped in acetic acid had a slightly higher FB+F than the ones stopped in water. Clearly a water stop bath is necessary. Thanks for clearing this up

Jarin Blaschke · Dec 21, 2017

Ian Leake said:
OK, I'm really impressed! This is must have been what was happening. The negatives stopped in acetic acid had a slightly higher FB+F than the ones stopped in water. Clearly a water stop bath is necessary. Thanks for clearing this up

Good lord, I couldnt imagine yet another reason that Pyro could be such a pain in the a—. Damn you, Pyro and your bewitching tonality!

Water stop: uneven development, mottling.
Acid stop: fog, bloody highlights.

Argh!

Jarin Blaschke · Dec 21, 2017

I mean “bloomy” highlights. No edit function on a phone.

J

NedL · Dec 21, 2017

Ian Leake said:
OK, I'm really impressed! This is must have been what was happening.

Me too. That's pretty incredible and it's cool that it's been known for nearly 100 years!

Richard Man · Dec 21, 2017

Nodda Duma said:
Chemical reaction-induced phosphorescence. Here's a solution..from 1922!

That's some serious google-fu

Sirius Glass · Dec 21, 2017

I use tank development so I have never seen this effect.

Nodda Duma · Dec 21, 2017

Richard Man said:
That's some serious google-fu

My Google Fu was strong today!

Steve Goldstein · Dec 21, 2017

Hmm, I wonder if this is the reason I've seen recommendations to use stop bath mixed to half strength when working with some pyro-based developers. If the stop was used one-shot it could probably be mixed even weaker.

Having said that, I've never seen any evidence of fogging while using Pyrocat-HD with a half-strength acetic acid stop, with either roll film or sheets. I'll look out for this phosphorescence next time I run a few sheets of 4x5, for which I always use trays.

Ian Leake · Dec 21, 2017

Steve Goldstein said:
Having said that, I've never seen any evidence of fogging while using Pyrocat-HD with a half-strength acetic acid stop, with either roll film or sheets. I'll look out for this phosphorescence next time I run a few sheets of 4x5, for which I always use trays.

I don’t think it happens with PyrocatHD - at least I’ve never seen it

Gerald C Koch · Dec 22, 2017

There are a few chemicals which can give of light. The one that comes to mind is lumenol which when oxidized gives off a cold blue light. Police departments use it to detect blood at a crime scene. However I doubt it would be present in film.

mshchem · Dec 22, 2017

I sure have seen static light when tearing paper attached to roll film. I always would exhale onto the paper tape when I would tear the tape. Seemed to help. Something is happening. Thankfully your eyes can focus on very dim light that has no chance of fogging film, especially at the stop bath stage.

Sirius Glass · Dec 22, 2017

mshchem said:
I sure have seen static light when tearing paper attached to roll film. I always would exhale onto the paper tape when I would tear the tape. Seemed to help. Something is happening. Thankfully your eyes can focus on very dim light that has no chance of fogging film, especially at the stop bath stage.

I just pull very slowly or use a scissors to cut the tape.

AgX · Dec 23, 2017

Ian Leake said:
This is a bit bizarre. I was developing some sheet film this morning in trays. When I put each sheet of film into the stop bath, it briefly gave off light. Yes, you read that right – each sheet of film glowed briefly as I put it in the stop.

For what it's worth: the stop was dilute acetic acid, the developer was John Wimberley's WD2H+, and the film was FP4+.

It would be interesting to know if anyone has made the same experience.

Film gives off light when put into the stop bath?

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